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Progressive Suspension

6K views 37 replies 14 participants last post by  trkpro 
#1 ·
Hello,

I had a slow leaking LH fork and this AM I have a RH seal that is totally gone. I am going to go Progressive.....Just wanted your input as to what I need to do the job. I am purchasing from Wingstuff...a full seal and bushing kit, the anti dive valve and the Progressive Monotube cartridge...is there anything else that I will need? Except oil?

Thanks
JT
 
#2 ·
A seal driver. One can be made from a 1, 1/2" PVC sewer pipe adapter.

Why buy, replace the ADV? Most will just disable the ADV when installing Monotubes.
 
#4 · (Edited)
If you are fitting the monotubes and want to disable the anti-dive at the same time then you don't need the Anti-Dive shim.
Just don't bother transferring the two anti-dive valve discs, circlips and small spring etc from the bottom of the OEM left fork damper rod to the left Monotube.
They are not needed if you don't want the anti-dive to operate.
 
#5 ·
That is correct and how mine is today.

However, if you want to "play" with it, ADV functioning versus disabled and see for yourself how it rides, get the shim. Adding or removing the shim a time or two is easy, just a few minutes.

When I was rebuilding after a major pot hole incident I did leave the ADV parts off the bottom of the left Monotube that time. By then, many miles down the road, I was sure that I would never be using the ADV again.


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#8 ·
Ditto that. I just used a used rubber o-ring I had in the junk drawer. Even cheaper.


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#12 · (Edited)
#13 ·
But, if he uses the nickel he can go back and restore the AD very quickly to see how he likes it best. Some people insist they prefer the AD to be functional; beats me as to why, but at least the easy option is there.


prs
 
#14 ·
Which is what I said earlier, but as usual, said much better. My Mamma was the wordsmith (English teacher). I paid more attention to Dad's mechanical skills. Oh well.
 
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#16 ·
But as usual, I did not properly state what I intended to say. I thought YOU said it better, clearer than me. Rereading my own statement, That is what I thought but not what I wrote! My bad.
 
#17 ·
I had my Progressive Springs installed by a Honda dealer last week. The couple of rides I have done so far lead me to this question. What is the ride supposed to feel like? Seems as if I feel every asphalt snake strip across the road and every dip. Are the springs set too loose or too tight? Or, is there something else going on?

I made no change to the rear shock. Still set on 7.
 
#19 ·
The OP is getting Progressive Monotubes, very different than a pair of springs. New, stronger springs will ride firmer, but would not expect a harsh ride.

I would follow Waldo's lead and suggest temporally disabling the ADV and see what happens. If the ADV is working properly, disabled should not change the ride. The ADV should only be only be activated when you are on the brakes. If stuck it will give a harsh ride even when not braking.
 
#20 ·
Let me rephrase my post. I bought Progressive Gas monotube cartridges to go into the fork tubes. These are not the same as "springs", per se. Would the ADV still be causing the problem of a harsh ride? I had one tech guy on the web tell me there might be too much oil in the forks. Tech rep at Progressive told me to take cycle back to mechanic and have him ride the cycle to see what I am talking about. I had planned to do that anyway but there does not seem to be a quick fix.
 
#22 ·
Yes, the Monotubes use less oil than a stock set up and also different amounts of oil in left versus right tubes. Early reports when these first came out was that too much oil would produce a hydro lock, harsh ride and possibly damage the Monotubes!

The ADV can also cause a harsh ride. When working properly it pinches down or even blocks fluid flow in the left fork, but ONLY when the brakes are applied - to keep the front end from diving under braking. If the ADV sticks in the "brakes on" position, a harsh ride will be the result.
 
#21 ·
I guess that I am just as cheap as anyone else if not more so. I used a 5/16th flat washer for the anti-dive shim. Works great. Now to figure out a cheap way to make a longer lever for the center stand. I will be under going a hernia repair surgery March 18th and will not be able to lift anything more than 30 lbs for at least 3 months. I figure that way it will take less effort to get the bike up on center stand which it what I use when parking it under our carport. Might just help me to keep riding this summer, and maybe even till I get really old. Also will turn 71 this May!
 
#33 ·
GL-1800 Center Stand EZ-LIFT

I guess that I am just as cheap as anyone else if not more so. I used a 5/16th flat washer for the anti-dive shim. Works great. Now to figure out a cheap way to make a longer lever for the center stand. I will be under going a hernia repair surgery March 18th and will not be able to lift anything more than 30 lbs for at least 3 months. I figure that way it will take less effort to get the bike up on center stand which it what I use when parking it under our carport. Might just help me to keep riding this summer, and maybe even till I get really old. Also will turn 71 this May!
Sorry if someone covered this for you earlier. But here's an idea for your center stand issue. Little pricey...But if it works for ya. Keep info like this if and when I'll need it.
(GL-1800 Center Stand EZ-LIFT PHILS FARKELS)
http://www.philsfarkels.com/home.html
 
#24 ·
Just curious. How would the ADV stick? How is the ADV disabled? Where is it located? I can't find anything in the service manual by the name.
 
#28 ·
The ADV valve gets gummed up when the o-rings in it fail.
ADV is:: Anti-Dive Valve.

Disable by putting a nickel with a 1/4" hole in the center of it in between the two halves of the valve, Comes apart when you take the two top bolts out of it

Located front side of left fork leg.

Roger: You can test your front fork compression by simply holding the front brake and push down on the handle bars, (as in trying to bounce the front end up and down) it should go up and down fairly easily. Do it with both feet on the floor straddling the wing with both wheels on the ground. If it does not move at all then I would say that the ADV is the main problem or cartridges or the installation are faulty.

Just answering your questions as I think you may have already been to your installer, Hope it works out for you. Let us know what develops.. Ride Safe...
 
#25 ·
For me "harsh" was daily crossing railroad tracks just after braking. Bone jarring, teeth rattling! Slow on approach without braking and tracks were no big deal, normal.

As I recall, Research by the great guys like Fred and the (never to be mentioned) Rocky indicated the the o-ring in the upper section would swell and bind, keeping the pin from retracting, keeping the left fork bound up after the brakes are released.

Disable by either blocking the pin with something like a drilled nickel. Or, shimming the two halves of the ADV far enough apart to prevent the pin in the top half from reaching the piston in the lower half.

ADV is mounted to the front of the lower section of the left fork.

In my book, pictured in Section 14 for rebuilding the left fork assembly. Instructions are to, "remove the following from the left fork leg: two bolts and the anti-dive plunger case". (14-24) Also, Section 16 for bleeding rear brake, step 4, anti-dive plunger bleed valve.

Shown in the brake plumbing diagram.
Text Diagram Line Design Parallel


What the guts look like.
Diagram Technical drawing Drawing Cylinder



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#26 ·
I spoke at length with the head mechanic at the Honda shop who installed my monotubes. He said he had installed hundreds of monotubes and only one guy was so dissatisfied that he changed those forks back to stock. He said he could do the same for me, if I wish. He says he follows the instructions furnished by the manufacturer and knew there was a difference in the amount of oil in the forks. He repeated what Progressive told me by phone that the springs in the cartridges are stiffer than Honda OEM. We talked about the ADV and Jr. said mine was working properly. When I got home I removed the top of the ADV anyway, tested it (it works every time I depress the brake pedal) and took a ride but did not see a vast improvement. I started to just bolt it back together but then decided to do the "hole in a nickel" thing. Still, no vast improvement in riding comfort. Progressive said they would send me a return authorization and I could send the monotubes in for testing, but since I have only 26K miles and I am not an aggressive rider (you can read that as an old slow fart) I may just go back to the stock set up, which I have. I could probably sell the monotubes for a reduced price and they would be great for a heavy person or someone who likes to push the limits of a Goldwing. One more thing. Progressive said removing the pre-load spacers would soften the spring bounce some but their monotubes were designed to be stiffer than OEM. Alternatively, I can ride the dang thing and try to get used to a rougher ride.
 
#30 · (Edited)
RogerC,
It is folks like you and, reports like this, that have caused me to delay for quite a while on rebuilding/modifying my fork assemblies. I too have had a left front fork seal leak now for well over 2-3 years and, as of yet, I have yet to find and read, a 100% satisfaction rate, of the PMT change-over.

I and many others have brought this "disable the ADV" thing up a few zillion times on here and, as you can read, there are still mixed emotions on whether or not to disable it. Our bike is an '08 with 28K on the clock and, I check on a fairly frequent basis, the actual fork movement by viewing through the tunnel.

We live in Lake Havasu City AZ and are presently in San Diego. We loaded up the bike, put the dog carrier on the trunk, and loaded and hooked the trailer and headed west. I had plenty of time crossing multiple areas of the desert between home and San Diego to observe the tops of those forks, moving up and down rapidly to correspond to the existing road surface.

I don't know just how many ADVs actually LOCK UP which, they say, basically does not allow the forks to move at all which, would mean you have ZERO front suspension. Yeah, I could see how that would be a bone jarring ride. Well, ours does not do that. As stated, the forks do travel up and down during regular freeway speeds.

I have come dangerously close to ordering up a set of PMTs and, because of the dissatisfaction of the ride, after the install, by some, I'm not sure YET! This is my second GL 1800 and both have rode and driven the same. And both have not had any issues with the ADV. I, like many, would like a top notch smoother ride. That's what owning a 900 lb. rolling couch is all about, at least to me. I didn't by it to compete with Ninja racers on the Dragon.

Many, many folks have complained over the years on this forum about how "slushy" the suspension of the 1800 is and, how its own weight will use up about 1/2 the fork travel, after letting it off the center stand. Well, it does for sure use up quite a bit of the fork travel. So, I'm still not sure of my next move. Your report, to me, still causes doubt as to the actual "Upgrade" claimed by so many.

Is your install malfunctioning, heck, I don't know. I'm just reading and taking all this in. Sooner or later, I'll have to do something because, I'll run out of fork oil after wiping mine off a few zillion times. Then, I'll have to make some sort of move.
Scott
 
#27 ·
Pre load spacers? Did he put the ones that come in the box in? If so, there would be the issue!

Unless you are way big boy or very aggressive rider, install as they came out of the box. Do not add the preload spacers.

I am ~240, ride fairly aggressive and do not want or need the extra preload. I did try adding them at first, but the next time into to refresh bushings I pulled them off. Just a little stiffer than I needed.
 
#32 ·
I did the bouncing thing late last night (with ADV disabled) and the front end does bounce up and down. I'll not say "freely" as the springs in the Progressive setup are stiffer by design than Honda OEM. So, I'm at a loss as to what to do next. My options seem to be "live with it", "have the pre-load spacers removed" (about as much cost involved as to have option 3 done) or #3, return the forks to stock setup. I have only 26K on the wing and it has not been ridden hard, so in my opinion, I have many more miles left on the stock springs and I am leaning toward having them re-installed. This time, I believe I can remove the tubes myself and save an hour's labor charge. I have more time on my hands than money in my pocket. My OEM setup was fine--I guess I fell victim to the "everybody else is doing Progressive, why not me?" Maybe on down the road I'll consider the race tech option, but right now, my mind is focused on getting the smoothest ride I can find.
 
#34 ·
Who decided to put the extra (excessive) preload spacers in, you or the mechanic? The same person should be responsible for removal IMHO.
 
#35 ·
The mechanic puts the spacers in, based on his experience and analysis of how big the rider is. If I had known they make a BIG difference, I would have asked him to leave the spacers out. OTOH, from what the Progressive tech rep told me, removal of the spacers "may soften the ride some" but he could not quantify how much is "some." I'm beginning to accept the philosophy that Progressive cartridges (with or without spacers) are for aggressive riders who scrape pegs every now and then, or for support of two up weight or a heavier rider than me. A Goldwing is not supposed to feel like you are riding on a donkey.
 
#37 ·
The original style came with no spacers installed, 4 loose in box, 2 per side, use one or both, with 1 per side being normal.

New style are firmer as shipped (like old style with one per side) and only come with 2 extra spacers.
 
#38 ·
For what is worth, I'm a fan of the PMT's. I weigh 220 on a good day....They definitely give my bike a softer ride over rough roads, tracks, etc. I put them in without the extra spacers, and on the new gen III, less oil is used on the right side per Progressive. I also have the Progressive shock on the back. I think it's the best ride you can get for a bike this big, for the price. Not everyone likes a corvette to ride like a Cadillac.......Just sayin
 
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