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Geico Insurance Exception limits daily riding to 500 miles a day.

8K views 88 replies 35 participants last post by  Rail32 
#1 ·
I posted this on the end of another thread and it didn't go well. In the interest of a having a worth while discussion regarding a clause in my Geico policy.

I got my policy and took the liberty to post here the exceptions policy of my Geico Motorcycle insurance policy:

First, the whole page # 12 without any editing, then I will highlight my concerns at the bottom of the page.

Here is the whole page:

New Policy Page 21 of 42
12.
a) any hill climbing exhibition or any other contest or demonstration;
b) any race, speed contest, spontaneous racing or stunting activity of any nature;
c)
d)
13. to punitive or exemplary damages.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
PERSONS INSURED
1.
2.
3.
1. a)
b)
2.
FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY LAWS
OUT OF STATE INSURANCE
LIMITS OF LIABILITY
1.
2.
3.
to bodily injury or property damage losses sustained while your motorcycle is used in, or in preparation or practice for:
any marathon-type contest, use in any competition and/or sporting event, or while on any race course or facility designed for racing; or any contest which sanctions continuous riding for 24 or more hours and/or mileage accumulation in excess of
500 miles per 24 hour period.
to bodily injury or property damage caused by war, whether or not declared, civil war, insurrection, rebellion or revolution.
to bodily injury or property damage while occupying, using or operating an all terrain vehicle.
to bodily injury or property damage while occupying, using or operating an electric personal assistive mobility device.
for bodily injury or property damage that results from nuclear exposure or explosion including resulting fire, radiation or contamination.
for bodily injury or property damage due to bio-chemical attack or exposure to bio-chemical agents.
SECTION I applies to the following as insureds with regard to an owned motorcycle:
You and your relatives;
Any other person using the motorcycle with your permission. The actual use must be within the scope of that permission;
Any other person or organization for his or its liability because of acts or omissions of an insured under 1. or 2. above.
SECTION I applies to the following with regard to a non-owned motorcycle:
you for all non-owned motorcycles as defined;
your relatives when using a motorcycle or trailer.
Such use by you or your relatives must be with the permission, or reasonably believed to be with the permission, of
the owner and within the scope of that permission.
A person or organization, not owning or hiring the motorcycle, regarding his or its liability because of acts or
omissions of an insured under 1. above.
The coverage limits stated in the Declarations are our maximum obligations regardless of the number of insureds
involved in the occurrence.
When this policy is certified as proof of financial responsibility for the future under the provisions of a motor vehicle
financial responsibility law, this liability insurance will comply with the provisions of that law. The insured agrees to
reimburse us for payments made by us which we would not have had to make except for this agreement.
When the policy applies to the operation of a motorcycle outside of your state, we agree to increase your coverages to
the extent required of out-of-state motorists by local law. This additional coverage will be reduced to the extent that you
are protected by another automobile insurance policy. No person can be paid more than once for any item of loss.
Regardless of the number of motorcycles to which the policy applies:
The limit of Bodily Injury Liability stated in the Declarations as applicable to "each person" is the limit of our liability
for all damages, including damages for care and loss of services, because of bodily injury sustained by one person
as the result of one occurrence.
The limit of Bodily Injury Liability stated in the Declarations as applicable to "each occurrence" is, subject to the above
provision respecting each person, the total limit of our liability for all such damages, including damages for care and
loss of services, because of bodily injury sustained by two or more persons as the result of any one occurrence.
The limit of Property Damage Liability stated in the Declarations as applicable to "each occurrence" is the total limit
of our liability for all damages because of injury to or destruction of the property of one or more persons or
organizations, ...................


****
Under line 3. there is this:

to bodily injury or property damage losses sustained while your motorcycle is used in, or in preparation or practice for:
any marathon-type contest, use in any competition and/or sporting event, or while on any race course or facility designed for racing; or
any contest which sanctions continuous riding for 24 or more hours and/or mileage accumulation in excess of 500 miles per 24 hour period.

Now I don't really have a dog in this fight. I mostly motorcycle camp and rarely travel over 500 miles in a 24 hour period. I have done so, but not with any regularity.

However, if I did ride 500+ miles in 24 hours and I had Geico Insurance, I would want this exclusion explained to me by a Geico representative, an attorney or perhaps just a English major. Legalize perhaps, but that sentence is run on and I am not sure if that last clause is to stand alone. I wouldn't trust my local Geico Insurance Agent to tell me "I am good." I would want clarification. Perhaps we have good qualified professional folks on this forum?

Better safe than sorry.

I take it that Geico Motorcycle Insurance doesn't really want riders who ride 500+ miles a day.
 
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#2 ·
My apologies to LarryM and others from the previous thread where I started a different conversation unrelated to the original poster. I am not trying to create any controversy. Just looking out for those that do ride 500+ miles a day and have Geico Insurance.
 
#3 ·
This has come up before and been a heated topic. Short story is anyone can choose to use whomever they desire - and if they don't read the fine print, oh well. Now with that said, unless you self incriminate yourself the insurance company will pay. As my agent once said - it's easier to pay the claim than fight the legal challenge. Same thing for the morons that take their trucks out onto the ice to go ice fishing and then watch their brand new 4x4 sink. Company pays for the truck, owner gets to pay the environmental damage assessment.


As to fine print - those with State Farm insurance - be aware they do not pay for a motorcycle trailer - period. The trailer, contents, other property damage from said trailer hitting something, etc.. My agent said I was covered. Checked one time before a trip to verify if trailer was covered if I left it locked at hotel while riding around. Agent checked with home office - found out it wasn't covered at all - on or off the bike. AND - if I had a passenger other than a family member or someone living at my house - they weren't covered. So couldn't give a stranded motorist or a sweet young thing a lift. Changed my insurance company that week - after having State Farm for over 40 years.


So end result - go over your policy carefully, ask questions of your agent, and if not sure about something - get it in writing.

 
#58 ·
I have a separate policy for my Bushtec w/ state farm, covering me for Fire,Theft, Comp, collision.. abour $6 a year..
 
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#5 ·
I totally agree ssncob to the trailer discussion.

I had something happens with contains of a trailer behind a pickup with State Farm. Nothing on the hitch back is not convened, trailer or what you are Hauling. It could also include what you have in the pickup bed. Reading and understanding your policy is very important.
 
#6 ·
you are misreading the policy you showed. It does not say riding over 500 miles, it say any type of race that requires 500 miles in 24 hour period. And example would be iron butt racing. It says nothing about riding between two points if it is not a race. The comma does not start a new rule, just a completing of what they were talking about.
 
#20 · (Edited)
In reality, nearly all policies probably exclude rallies like the IBA. Rallies are pretty much universally considered to be a form of racing, except of course by participants and fans of the events.

Since most policies already exclude racing, rallies would be included under that section of the policies.

That leaves the big question, why would Geico expand their policies to include wording such as what is being discussed here?

My guess would be that the intent is to head off litigation by policyholders that don't agree with the definition of what is considered racing. Regardless of whether the insurance companies win or lose lawsuits over these disagreements, expanding the wording by clarifying it by being more specific prevents lawsuits from ever starting.
 
#10 ·
You are or you're not

If you start out on a SS1000 Ironbutt ride and you are in an incident/accident, you then revert to NOT being on an IB ride at all. If you complete the IB ride without incident, then you completed an IB ride.

Something akin to taking the 5th during interrogation. Don't open your mouth and incriminate yourself.
 
#40 ·
If you start out on a SS1000 Ironbutt ride and you are in an incident/accident, you then revert to NOT being on an IB ride at all. If you complete the IB ride without incident, then you completed an IB ride.

Something akin to taking the 5th during interrogation. Don't open your mouth and incriminate yourself.

Exactly. Who's going to prove you rode over 500 miles that day when you had your accident?
 
#11 ·
any marathon-type contest, use in any competition and/or sporting event, or while on any race course or facility designed for racing; or any contest which sanctions continuous riding for 24 or more hours and/or mileage accumulation in excess of 500 miles per 24 hour period.

Until someone finds a definition that says otherwise, as far as I'm concerned the exception applies strictly to contests, not touring.

And/or (also and or) is a grammatical conjunction used to indicate that one or more of the cases it connects may occur. For example, the sentence "He will eat cake, pie, and/or brownies" indicates that although the person may eat any of the three listed desserts, the choices are not exclusive; the person may eat one, two, or all three of the choices.
 
#13 ·
My whole point is this: Why leave it up to your own interpretation of that sentence? If I was close to a 500+ mile a day guy and I had Geico Insurance, I would be finding out. I wouldn't take a jail house lawyer's word on it, I would get that explained to me and if they couldn't explain that to my satisfaction, I would be shopping for different coverage.

It reads pretty plain to me that they are going to exclude coverage for people who ride more than 500 miles a day. It is a contract that Geico composed for the insured to sign. :)

Note to those who think they can "be or not be on a long distance ride." When you go down and stay down, the accident investigators look at everything at the crash scene. Receipts, notes, and anything that would give them a clue as to what was going on before the crash. The pictures on your phone of you standing in front of the Alamo on Thursday and you are now in Virginia, might be just a clue to investigators.

It would be a shame to not have the coverage you thought you had.

If you are comfortable with it, that is great.

What else can we discuss? Parking at Walmart? Using wuppie cushions instead of custom seats? Using fake rattle can chrome? Johnson Pledge on the windshield?
 
#18 ·
My whole point is this: Why leave it up to your own interpretation of that sentence? If I was close to a 500+ mile a day guy and I had Geico Insurance, I would be finding out. I wouldn't take a jail house lawyer's word on it, I would get that explained to me and if they couldn't explain that to my satisfaction, I would be shopping for different coverage.

It reads pretty plain to me that they are going to exclude coverage for people who ride more than 500 miles a day. It is a contract that Geico composed for the insured to sign. :)
Larry, we have been civil about this discussion, and even though it frustrated me, I have enjoyed most of it. Even though I don't have Geico, I would never look into it because it is pretty clear to me what it says. I really don't have any doubts. But it's obvious we will not come to a consensus on this, and that's ok. So we might as well move on.

FWIW, I would never have Geico. This is the company that won't write a policy to anyone with a radar detector except for a couple of states that forbid the exclusion. And they are the ones who have been lobbying for years to have them outlawed. I don't own one, but I don't like it when a company tells you how you have to live your life.
 
#14 ·
Also, if someone does get a legal opinion on this, please report your findings back here for the rest of us.
 
#15 ·
If not in a competition, how would they know how many miles you ride in a day unless you tell them. You do not have to record starting and ending mileage each and every day you ride. JMHO.
As for State Farm Ins I have a separate policy for my trailer $70/year.
 
#16 ·
... As for State Farm Ins I have a separate policy for my trailer $70/year.
Yeah, might want to verify what it does and doesn't cover, and if it's covered when not attached to the bike parked at a hotel. And might want to check medical coverage for passengers. Like I said, had State Farm for over 40 years, then found out about the exclusions. Also, the rates were much higher than Progressive/DairyLand.

 
#22 ·
"And for Pete's sake, don't call the insurance company. Anything that an insurance company or agent says over the phone is not a binding legal description in court."

Insurance agents must have E/O insurance for they past a test given by the state and are responsible for miss-representing the product they sell. Insurance a adverse contract and if there is a question in understanding, courts support the buyer for they can not make choices in the contracts makeup.
 
#23 ·
Does this include "poker Run's" or other motorcycle rally's where 100's of other motorcycles are involved??
Would that be considered a race??

Ronnie
 
#24 · (Edited)
IMO, a Poker Run would not be considered a race any more than riding around selling Girl Scout Cookies. You aren't racing against time or another person. The outcome is not dependent on your riding. With a poker run, you might win a prize for having the best hand. Selling GS cookies, you might win that trip to Hawaii for selling the most.

But with Geico's new wording, if that Poker run was an organized event that required more than 500 miles in a 24 hour period, or continuously riding for more than 24 hours, then yeah, you might have a problem if you wrecked and they found out about it. The fact that you had to stop at predefined locations to pick up playing cards would not factor in. You would be in violation with or without the cards. They don't stipulate what the event was for, only that it was organized and sanctioned.

It isn't much of a stretch to guess that Geico's focus with the new wording is on the IBA events, considering they are the only well known organization of that type.

It would be fun, but I don't think I have ever heard of a Poker Run that came close to 500 miles.
 
#27 ·
I guess this is why we have so many lawyers in the US. Because nothing is ever clear enough to everyone.

I think the race/competition/contest part is key and agree with the English speakers and/or readers who note that the 24hr/500mi thing is only in play in that context. It' unsurprising that the IBA is generally fairly adamant that they do not do a race/competition/contest. My un-learned opinion on that is that one would be hard pressed to win that argument for the Iron Butt Rally in a court where the facts were at hand. My far more relevant un-learned opinion is that there's a very strong leg to stand on that a cert ride is NOT a race/competition/contest so the clause wouldn't apply, and even in a rally you're likely to avoid the court and/or an overabundance of crew day facts.

The READ YOUR POLICY advice is spot on.
 
#29 ·
..........My far more relevant un-learned opinion is that there's a very strong leg to stand on that a cert ride is NOT a race/competition/contest so the clause wouldn't apply, and even in a rally you're likely to avoid the court and/or an overabundance of crew day facts.

The READ YOUR POLICY advice is spot on.
An SS1000, to use an example, is a sanctioned contest against time that requires the rider to ride 1000 miles within a 24 hours period.

To me, that fits the Geico exclusion clause exactly. But who knows. That's just my take on it.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Yep. Your GPS is live all the time. Your phone is recording your tracks even when you turn off the feature. Location tracking is also done in conjunction with cell towers to triangulate your position. Your only hope is to turn the phone off and stick it in a metal box while running an event. And pay for those gas receipts in cash.

As someone mentioned in another thread, one of the cert challenges would be pretty tough for Geico to sniff out or raise suspicion unless the rider opened his big mouth and said something about it. But who knows. Our privacy has been invaded in many more ways than any of us realize. Nothing we do is private anymore.

This is the one thing that makes me glad larryinseattle posted this topic. Even though I don't agree with his assertion, it should at least raise a flag for those that do IBA events. They can add this to their preparation.
 
#31 ·
I use Geico insurance as I do ride out of state. Washington State law does not require insurance on motorcycles. I wish to ride in other states that do require insurance, so I spend the $99 per year on the cheapest policy I can find. That is why I use Geico. However, I know other motorcyclists who do use Geico. I wish to caution them on this exclusion.

I merely brought this up as I read my policies and that clause is vague. I wish I had my previous "Exclusions Page" from a previous policy, as it was less vague. I don't think one has to be in any competition for the 2nd half of the clause to be an effective exclusion. The intent of the author, which is the insurance company, is to limit their liability.

As a motorcyclist, we want this to not exclude us. We read this to find a reason why it doesn't exclude ourselves.

I don't have a dog in the fight, even though I have Geico. It is not my style of riding. I like to see the countryside that I am riding in. I stop and read stuff. I stop and see stuff. I also set and break camp each and every day, as I don't motel / hotel. I also rarely eat in a restaurant when traveling, as I prepare my dinner / breakfast and prepare something to eat for lunch before I set out for the day. So my mileage on a very good day, would be 500 miles. I have done 750 in a day, but that is starting fresh at home and having a destination that made sense.

I enjoy the ride, but if I don't have a destination, I don't ride. The inherent risks of being unnecessarily on the road does not make sense to me. Now, I am going to do the "Run for the Wall" this year and I will be joining some other motorcyclists for a M&G afterwards, but my focus is and has always been ride to camp, ride to explore and discover. I don't leave home without a destination any more. I did quite a bit of that 35 years ago but not any more. I like driving my pickup too, but I don't set out of the house in it without a destination in mind. I don't want to discredit anyone who does ride for pure enjoyment, as I understand that part of motorcycling. I am like most riders in that there is a let down when the destination appears on the horizon. The ride is over. But my life is good and I enjoy dismounting and getting after what ever is the next indicated thing to do. I don't live to ride or ride to live.

See you guys on the road. I am the guy riding and reading mail boxes.
 
#33 ·
I use Geico insurance as I do ride out of state. Washington State law does not require insurance on motorcycles. I wish to ride in other states that do require insurance, so I spend the $99 per year on the cheapest policy I can find. That is why I use Geico. However, I know other motorcyclists who do use Geico. I wish to caution them on this exclusion.

I merely brought this up as I read my policies and that clause is vague. I wish I had my previous "Exclusions Page" from a previous policy, as it was less vague. I don't think one has to be in any competition for the 2nd half of the clause to be an effective exclusion. The intent of the author, which is the insurance company, is to limit their liability.

As a motorcyclist, we want this to not exclude us. We read this to find a reason why it doesn't exclude ourselves.

I don't have a dog in the fight, even though I have Geico. It is not my style of riding. I like to see the countryside that I am riding in. I stop and read stuff. I stop and see stuff. I also set and break camp each and every day, as I don't motel / hotel. I also rarely eat in a restaurant when traveling, as I prepare my dinner / breakfast and prepare something to eat for lunch before I set out for the day. So my mileage on a very good day, would be 500 miles. I have done 750 in a day, but that is starting fresh at home and having a destination that made sense.

I enjoy the ride, but if I don't have a destination, I don't ride. The inherent risks of being unnecessarily on the road does not make sense to me. Now, I am going to do the "Run for the Wall" this year and I will be joining some other motorcyclists for a M&G afterwards, but my focus is and has always been ride to camp, ride to explore and discover. I don't leave home without a destination any more. I did quite a bit of that 35 years ago but not any more. I like driving my pickup too, but I don't set out of the house in it without a destination in mind. I don't want to discredit anyone who does ride for pure enjoyment, as I understand that part of motorcycling. I am like most riders in that there is a let down when the destination appears on the horizon. The ride is over. But my life is good and I enjoy dismounting and getting after what ever is the next indicated thing to do. I don't live to ride or ride to live.

See you guys on the road. I am the guy riding and reading mail boxes.
Since you obviously do not compete in Iron Butt events or other contests that ask you to drive 500miles within 24 hours or ride for 24hours steady, then you will have no problems with Geico.
 
#35 ·
I've never had Geico. Indeed, I've never even gotten a quote from them.

A fellow I used to work with back in the late 80's had Geico coverage on all of his cars. One day in 89 (I think it was 89...maybe 88 ) , he was on his way to work when an uninsured driver in a pickup truck blew through a Stop and t-boned him.

Geico sent an adjuster out to inspect his car......three days later he had a check for the cash-out on his car (totaled ....not a surprise, it was banged up pretty badly)

Two weeks after that...he received an additional notice that they were dropping the coverage on all of his vehicles. Why? The adjuster saw and photographed his radar detector in his damaged car. Mere possession of which, Geico claimed, indicated clear and willful intent to violate State laws as they pertained to safe operation and Speed Limits.

Ever since that happened to him.....I will not even entertain quotes from GEICO. IF they treat people like that....I don't need to do business with them.




....sT
 
#41 ·
I too have Geico and the way I read it is if you are participating in an organized racing/competitive event such as the 24 hour race for cars and motorcycles this will definitely rack up over 500 miles in one day (24 hours). I've done 330 in 5 1/2 hours, and that is just too long with the wife behind you nagging in your ear to slow down. Best thing it's to find a good stop, chill out, have dinner, get your SNATCH for the night and get some sleep for the next days ride. Keep on Ridin' and be safe! !

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
 
#42 ·
I too have Geico and the way I read it is if you are participating in an organized racing/competitive event such as the 24 hour race for cars and motorcycles this will definitely rack up over 500 miles in one day (24 hours). I've done 330 in 5 1/2 hours, and that is just too long with the wife behind you nagging in your ear to slow down. Best thing it's to find a good stop, chill out, have dinner, get your SNATCH for the night and get some sleep for the next days ride. Keep on Ridin' and be safe! !

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Get your "WHAT?" for the night? ROFLMAO! Most of us here are too old to remember what that's like. :laugh:
 
#43 ·
Bottom line is this... IF you are an IBA member who regularly participates in IBA events AND you have Geico insurance, THEN you should consider going with a different insurance company on your motorcycle.

But, what if you are just out on a solo motorcycle trip and happen to do over 500 miles in one day (which I regularly do) and you have an accident after passing that 500 mile exclusion point? Can Geico wiggle out of paying the claim in that scenario? As correctly pointed out in previous posts, it would be very easy for Geico to subpoena your phone and credit card records for evidence of distance traveled in the 24 hours just prior to your accident.
 
#44 ·
Fair enough. But distinguish between "events" since some folks tend to paint all things IBA as the same. There's a world of difference between a rally and a run-of-the-mill cert ride. I have a hard time seeing a joy ride with an ex post facto completion certificate as a "contest" and it's only the rare cert event that is coordinated in advance. If you don't complete the ride, you're not even going to file for it so there's no contest at all, just a plan that didn't execute according to plan.

Geico holding would-be Saddle Sore riders, proceed!

I'd rethink it all if I were going to the Iron Butt Rally, but that's not going to happen so I'm good.
 
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