Still no consensus on ABS brakes on motorcycles. - Page 3 - GL1800Riders
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post #21 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 12:40 PM
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Some of the early ABS systems actually increased stopping distance, but the latest systems are nothing short of amazing.

However, being able to stop faster then everyone else might get you rear ended!
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post #22 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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I have mixed feelings about ABS, I believe in technology but do not believe that it should be mandated. I believe that it should be a stand alone option. I don't believe that there is sufficient real world data to warrant making all riders buy it.
Speed and alcohol plays a large role in motorcycle crash statistics, should they mandate motorcycles speed limited to 50 mph? Or motorcycles that requires breathalyzer to start?
We are always calling for bigger, faster more powerful motorcycles, and then feel that the government should force us to pay more to protect us from ourselves.

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post #23 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 01:08 PM
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So, am I safe in assuming that an ABS equipped GW will NEVER go down?
No...but it will never go down because of a locked wheel while braking and that is the cause of the majority of braking based accidents on a motorcycle.

Said another way...ABS doesn't increase traction, it just makes all the traction you have available.

You can go down without ever touching the brakes by just leaning too far where your momentum force to go straight exceed the traction (friction force) to change the direction.
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post #24 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WVMANDINGO View Post
I have mixed feelings about ABS, I believe in technology but do not believe that it should be mandated. I believe that it should be a stand alone option. I don't believe that there is sufficient real world data to warrant making all riders buy it.
Speed and alcohol plays a large role in motorcycle crash statistics, should they mandate motorcycles speed limited to 50 mph? Or motorcycles that requires breathalyzer to start?
We are always calling for bigger, faster more powerful motorcycles, and then feel that the government should force us to pay more to protect us from ourselves.

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Agree it should not be mandated any more than a helmet should.

Also believe it's important to have, much like the helmet.

In 30+ years of riding and hundreds of thousands of miles, I've never actually used my helmet in a crash. (and I've crashed a dozen times and once at close to 100 mph) Just because I don't normally use it doesn't mean I'm not going to put it on.

I feel the same way about ABS. It's there if I need it. Much better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Final thought.... I also agree with a previous post that it's a tool in the toolbox and not magic. Like most tools, you need to learn to use it. One should practice hard braking with ABS so they trust the system to actually work in an emergency. I've seen people crash with an ABS bike by trying to ride it out and trail brake so as to not lock the wheels rather than just grab the brakes hard and let ABS do it's thing. Talking to them afterwards about why they didn't just stand it up and brake harder, they said they just didn't think about it in the moment. Point being...ABS won't actually work better than conventional ones if you continue to threshold brake and never apply the brakes to the point where the wheel would lock up with conventional brakes.
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post #25 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 2WheelNut View Post
Agree it should not be mandated any more than a helmet should.

Also believe it's important to have, much like the helmet.

In 30+ years of riding and hundreds of thousands of miles, I've never actually used my helmet in a crash. (and I've crashed a dozen times and once at close to 100 mph) Just because I don't normally use it doesn't mean I'm not going to put it on.

I feel the same way about ABS. It's there if I need it. Much better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Final thought.... I also agree with a previous post that it's a tool in the toolbox and not magic. Like most tools, you need to learn to use it. One should practice hard braking with ABS so they trust the system to actually work in an emergency. I've seen people crash with an ABS bike by trying to ride it out and trail brake so as to not lock the wheels rather than just grab the brakes hard and let ABS do it's thing. Talking to them afterwards about why they didn't just stand it up and brake harder, they said they just didn't think about it in the moment. Point being...ABS won't actually work better than conventional ones if you continue to threshold brake and never apply the brakes to the point where the wheel would lock up with conventional brakes.
In the case of a helmet, there is sufficient data to analyze and come to a factual conclusion that they reduce TBI and death, Not the case with ABS. In controlled environments we all see the benefits of ABS on motorcycles but there is a lack of real world data.

I was looking up ABS pro that I had seen in another post on this forum. In one article I was reading they explained it as ABS with TC, they said it would give riders more confidence to go into blind turns without regards to what was in them, a stalled vehicle, a downed tree, seriously?

That comment was typical of a lot of them I've heard on the topic of ABS. It saved my bacon when I was doing 120 and a deer ran out in front of me, or when I was towing a 600 pound trailer. I think a lot of people are encouraged to over ride their ability or the capacity of the bike because of it.

It reminds me of the Walker vs Porsche law suit. When the blame was on a 650 hp car not having sufficient safety features and not on the driver doing a 100+ in a residential zone. I always said the best safety feature anyone can have is an alert rider. Sure those things help but they can't overcome stupid.

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post #26 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by WVMANDINGO View Post
In the case of a helmet, there is sufficient data to analyze and come to a factual conclusion that they reduce TBI and death, Not the case with ABS. In controlled environments we all see the benefits of ABS on motorcycles but there is a lack of real world data.

I was looking up ABS pro that I had seen in another post on this forum. In one article I was reading they explained it as ABS with TC, they said it would give riders more confidence to go into blind turns without regards to what was in them, a stalled vehicle, a downed tree, seriously?

That comment was typical of a lot of them I've heard on the topic of ABS. It saved my bacon when I was doing 120 and a deer ran out in front of me, or when I was towing a 600 pound trailer. I think a lot of people are encouraged to over ride their ability or the capacity of the bike because of it.

It reminds me of the Walker vs Porsche law suit. When the blame was on a 650 hp car not having sufficient safety features and not on the driver doing a 100+ in a residential zone. I always said the best safety feature anyone can have is an alert rider. Sure those things help but they can't overcome stupid.

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3 points.

1.) ABS data is there, it's proven, it works. Everyone who has studied the data knows it.
2.) I ride a lot harder when I wear my helmet than when I don't. I'm extremely cautious the few times I ride without my helmet. This being the case, and following your ABS logic, I guess we could say that helmets encourage people to ride over their limits.
3.) The Walker crash in the Porsche is believed by many to have been caused by old tires on the Porsche that had lost grip because they were several years old.

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post #27 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 2WheelNut View Post
3 points.

1.) ABS data is there, it's proven, it works. Everyone who has studied the data knows it.
2.) I ride a lot harder when I wear my helmet than when I don't. I'm extremely cautious the few times I ride without my helmet. This being the case, and following your ABS logic, I guess we could say that helmets encourage people to ride over their limits.
3.) The Walker crash in the Porsche is believed by many to have been caused by old tires on the Porsche that had lost grip because they were several years old.
1. I've acknowledged that I believe in the technology and it works. What has not happened is a sufficient collection of data from real world accidents that prove that the same accidents could have been prevented with ABS. Saying that ABS motorcycles are underrepresented in accidents is expected when they only represent 15% of the motorcycling public. I'm looking forward to studies coming out of Europe where it has been mandatory for a couple of years now.

2. Not my logic, just repeating logic I've heard coming from advocates of ABS.

3. Tires very well could have been a factor, but you still can't dismiss going over a 100 mph on those tires as a factor.

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post #28 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 02:29 PM
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ABS is as it should be at this point from my perspective. If you want it and are willing to pay for it, go for it. If your not, don't purchase a bike with it. Personally I wouldn't mind having it but I am not willing to pay $4000 more for that luxury.

Suggesting that it should be mandated is a VERY slippery slope when the government is deciding what is best for you. If that is the goal then they should ban ALL motorcycles in any form as they are more dangerous than passenger cars and trucks. In fact, following that line of thinking we should all drive exactly the same vehicles so everyone is as safe as possible and while we are at it lets get get their guns away from them too because everyone knows how dangerous THEY are.

My point is that I want to decide what risks I am willing to take and I don't need the government or anyone else stepping in and telling me what to do. It's a simple notion called freedom and I value it above nearly everything else.

Ride your own ride, do what you feel is best for you and don't worry about what the other guy is doing in regards to his personal safety.

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post #29 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dave ritsema View Post
ABS is as it should be at this point from my perspective. If you want it and are willing to pay for it, go for it. If your not, don't purchase a bike with it. Personally I wouldn't mind having it but I am not willing to pay $4000 more for that luxury.

Suggesting that it should be mandated is a VERY slippery slope when the government is deciding what is best for you. If that is the goal then they should ban ALL motorcycles in any form as they are more dangerous than passenger cars and trucks. In fact, following that line of thinking we should all drive exactly the same vehicles so everyone is as safe as possible and while we are at it lets get get their guns away from them too because everyone knows how dangerous THEY are.

My point is that I want to decide what risks I am willing to take and I don't need the government or anyone else stepping in and telling me what to do. It's a simple notion called freedom and I value it above nearly everything else.

Ride your own ride, do what you feel is best for you and don't worry about what the other guy is doing in regards to his personal safety.
Excellent post! You expressed my thoughts better than I could have myself.
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post #30 of 138 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 2WheelNut View Post
No...but it will never go down because of a locked wheel while braking and that is the cause of the majority of braking based accidents on a motorcycle.

Said another way...ABS doesn't increase traction, it just makes all the traction you have available.

You can go down without ever touching the brakes by just leaning too far where your momentum force to go straight exceed the traction (friction force) to change the direction.
Totally agree...BUT the arguments for or against ABS are passe'. Besides ABS being a no-brainer, reality is it's no longer state-of-the-art, but it's here to stay and has already evolved. ABS with traction control WAS the logical progression of ABS. (it has been available for several years on many bikes, but not on Honda's flagship). ABS/traction control does in fact increase traction in many everyday riding situations...and faster than any rider can detect there is any wheel slip.

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Last edited by JonfromCB; 04-19-2017 at 02:55 PM.
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