'17 Road Glide Ultra report - Page 8 - GL1800Riders
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post #71 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-09-2017, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by murf View Post
The 2017 tranny now has a countershaft first gear that is a scissors gear that is "preloaded" before being placed on the countershaft by holding the thick gear and rotating the thin gear till the holes align and using the HD scissor first gear tool to keep it preloaded. The countershaft is installed first. After the mainsheet is installed, the scissor first gear tool is removed. Besides eliminating the nasty clunk from neutral into first, the "hot rattle" while in neutral that HD's are known for also has pretty much been eliminated.

The hyd clutches on the 17's that I demoed engaged from 1/3 to half way out. The hyd clutch is not adjustable although HD does specify a minimum release plate movement of .086 inches. A notation is made that if the system is properly bled, release plate movement typically will be greater than specification. If the movement is less than .086 inches, recommendation is to bleed the system and recheck the movement.

The compensator also has been totally redesigned and the clutch is now an assist/slip unit.
I knew I'd get an answer that is beyond my pay grade.
I'd need to see the machine drawings of the gearbox and clutch to get a visual of what you described.
But thanks regardless.

Back to my original question.
If the clutch engages way late near the limit of lever travel, what can be done, if anything, to adjust it?

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post #72 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbird1 View Post
If the clutch engages way late near the limit of lever travel, what can be done, if anything, to adjust it?
System needs to be bled is what I've heard. Similar to the "Rocky bleed" issues with the GW.

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post #73 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 05:21 PM
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Adjustable levers are available for the '17. Might be a few companies offering them before too long.
The only adjustable clutch and brake hand levers for the 2017 touring models I have seen are from Oberon Performance. There are 8 settings for their clutch lever.
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post #74 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbird1 View Post
I knew I'd get an answer that is beyond my pay grade.
I'd need to see the machine drawings of the gearbox and clutch to get a visual of what you described.
But thanks regardless.

Back to my original question.
If the clutch engages way late near the limit of lever travel, what can be done, if anything, to adjust it?
Well as Racer57 mentioned, make sure the clutch system is properly bled; make sure the minimum release plate movement is .086 inches. Maybe a goof up during initial assembly? The 2016 spec for minimum release plate movement was .078 inches.

Like I mentioned, Oberon Performance makes adjustable clutch and brake hand levers for the 2017's with 8 settings on the clutch lever that allows one to move the engage/disengage point closer to the handlebar or other position based on personal preference.
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post #75 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by murf View Post
The only adjustable clutch and brake hand levers for the 2017 touring models I have seen are from Oberon Performance. There are 8 settings for their clutch lever.
I think I read that Softbrake is offering a reduced reach version also.
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post #76 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-11-2017, 01:41 PM
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.
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....and NOW.........
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More Harley pics......
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.

.
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murf and b206driver like this.

No matter where you go, there you are.
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post #77 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-11-2017, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Justa_Poser View Post
.
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....and NOW.........
.
.
More Harley pics......
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.

.
.
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post #78 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 05:21 AM
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The dealership owner showed me this himself.
He said this feature has been on all HD's for a long time.
To see this in action, the bike needs to be on a lift with the front wheel off the ground.
Turn the handlebars right or left to their limit, let go, and the handlebars will self-center.
It looks cool, but the slow speed steering was to me more difficult.
This was my subjective observation.
Maybe this was the cause, maybe not.

I'm sure Murf will have his $.02 to add to anything I say.
He seems to be the Harley keeper of the faith around here.
Dude, you got seriously snookered by that owner. He must have been one slick salesman in his day. I can't believe he is actually promoting self-centering as a "feature". That is like promoting a bike because it has tires.

All motorcycles are self centering. They have been since the day the first motorcycle was ever built. That is what the whole purpose of caster angle is, or in motorcycle terms, rake and trail. If a motorcycle didn't self center, it would be uncontrollable. Cars self center too, and so do bicycles.

It is nearly meaningless to show how steering centers with the wheel off the ground, unless your intent is to show how out of balance the steering's axis is. It only tells part of the story. A motorcycle's ability to self center is mostly dependent on the force of gravity pushing down on the front tire, and you can't demonstrate that with the bike sitting still.

By throwing off the balance of the steering axis, they have simply deadened the steering. The primary reason to do this is to try and control wobble, but it also increases straight line stability and makes the bike much more civil and easier to ride. From a performance standpoint however, it seriously hurts handling and makes the steering feel heavy. The owner wasn't going to tell you that part. It is not a unique or novel trait. It is primarily an American design attribute that was discarded by the Japanese decades ago.

Sport bikes generally have less self centering capability than other bikes in order to make them feel lighter and more flickable in the turns. When a mfr gets too carried away with it, the bike can become twitchy.

Steering geometry plays a major part in a bike's overall personality and feel. It all boils down to what the designer's intent was. This goes a long way towards explaining why Harley has its own fans and Japanese bikes have their supporters. And it exemplifies why there is not all that much crossover between the two. It all depends on what kind of personality you want from a bike. For better or worse, there is no denying that Harleys do feel different than any Japanese bike, and this is one of the reasons why.

Last edited by Sparky57; 05-12-2017 at 05:56 AM.
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post #79 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Sparky57 View Post
Dude, you got seriously snookered by that owner. He must have been one slick salesman in his day. I can't believe he is actually promoting self-centering as a "feature". That is like promoting a bike because it has tires.

All motorcycles are self centering. They have been since the day the first motorcycle was ever built. That is what the whole purpose of caster angle is, or in motorcycle terms, rake and trail. If a motorcycle didn't self center, it would be uncontrollable. Cars self center too, and so do bicycles.

It is nearly meaningless to show how steering centers with the wheel off the ground, unless your intent is to show how out of balance the steering's axis is. It only tells part of the story. A motorcycle's ability to self center is mostly dependent on the force of gravity pushing down on the front tire, and you can't demonstrate that with the bike sitting still.

By throwing off the balance of the steering axis, they have simply deadened the steering. The primary reason to do this is to try and control wobble, but it also increases straight line stability and makes the bike much more civil and easier to ride. From a performance standpoint however, it seriously hurts handling and makes the steering feel heavy. The owner wasn't going to tell you that part. It is not a unique or novel trait. It is primarily an American design attribute that was discarded by the Japanese decades ago.

Sport bikes generally have less self centering capability than other bikes in order to make them feel lighter and more flickable in the turns. When a mfr gets too carried away with it, the bike can become twitchy.

Steering geometry plays a major part in a bike's overall personality and feel. It all boils down to what the designer's intent was. This goes a long way towards explaining why Harley has its own fans and Japanese bikes have their supporters. And it exemplifies why there is not all that much crossover between the two. It all depends on what kind of personality you want from a bike. For better or worse, there is no denying that Harleys do feel different than any Japanese bike, and this is one of the reasons why.
Great article on rake and trail here.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...explained.aspx

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post #80 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sparky57 View Post
Dude, you got seriously snookered by that owner. He must have been one slick salesman in his day. I can't believe he is actually promoting self-centering as a "feature". That is like promoting a bike because it has tires.
All motorcycles are self centering. They have been since the day the first motorcycle was ever built. .
Whoa, there Sparky.
I think you misunderstood my description of self-centreing.
He jacked up the front end of an HD. He turned the handlebars to full left lock and released them.
The bars moved back to the centred position on their own. He repeated this turning the handlebar to right lock and on releasing, they self centred.
Try that on a Goldwing. The bars stay in the position they were left in.
That's what I'm talking about, not self centering when the bike is moving.

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