Stupid Question Concerning Rear Lug Nuts - GL1800Riders
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Stupid Question Concerning Rear Lug Nuts

I have never removed the rear wheel of my '02 and need some advice.

I recently acquired a 300 ft lb cordless impact wrench and a 19 mm 6 pt deep impact socket and figured this would be a good time to take that wheel off for a good cleaning (which it desperately needs). I removed the rear fender to allow me to roll the wheel out the back but now looking at the position of the lug nuts relative to the muffler, it is not clear to me how to get a straight shot at the lugs with the impact wrench. What length of extension, angle of approach etc lets one get to those lugs? Any suggestions/tips/tricks would be welcome.

Thanks for any help.

Jim
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 06:58 PM
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Raise the suspension to 25 to start with. Also you don't need any impact "toy" to remove the lug nuts they are torqued to just 80 foot lbs. A long handled ratchet or breaker bar handle will do fine. Do yourself a huge favor and do not use the impact wrench to reinstall those lug nuts. An impact wrench has it's justified practical uses, but not using it on the GL1800 is very advisable.




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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:07 PM
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Allen is correct!! use only a breaker bar , Harbor Freight has them 1/2" for about $12.00.

ALSO they have a Extendable ratchet that you can carry with your 19mm impact socket, in case you need it on the road.

But MORE important!! "USE" a TORQUE wrench when installing the wheel!!!!If at all possible!! if not re-torque it asap!!!
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:21 PM
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with all of the above. If you use that wrench to re-install the lug nuts, you will be looking at the For Sale board for a replacement final drive, or having the fun of replacing lug bolts.


As indicated, reach up with a breaker bar to loosen, use a torque wrench for final tightening, and don't use any lubricant on the threads.
.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:24 PM
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I use a 30" long breaker bar and the 6 point impact type sockets. I do this with the lay over method on my 2002, but have done it on the center stand too, but with the center stand tied forward and with the rear brake peddle tied firmly. I do not understand what putting the preload at top setting would have to do with it. Doing so would not hurt anything, but how could it help? If the lug nut shoulders are corroded and the lug threads likewise, it can be a tough pull to break them loose that first fraction of a turn. Clean the lug threads and shoulders with wire brush before reinstalling. I do not use antiseize, but if you must, reduce torque by at least 10%. With the lay over method, it is a piece of cake to set the wheel back on with holes aligned. On center stand, it takes a bit of muscle and luck to get that first lug in. Turn them in hand tight in crisscross pattern, then again to about 20 foot pounds and then to final torque.

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigeon Roost View Post
I use a 30" long breaker bar and the 6 point impact type sockets. I do this with the lay over method on my 2002, but have done it on the center stand too, but with the center stand tied forward and with the rear brake peddle tied firmly. I do not understand what putting the preload at top setting would have to do with it. Doing so would not hurt anything, but how could it help? If the lug nut shoulders are corroded and the lug threads likewise, it can be a tough pull to break them loose that first fraction of a turn. Clean the lug threads and shoulders with wire brush before reinstalling. I do not use antiseize, but if you must, reduce torque by at least 10%. With the lay over method, it is a piece of cake to set the wheel back on with holes aligned. On center stand, it takes a bit of muscle and luck to get that first lug in. Turn them in hand tight in crisscross pattern, then again to about 20 foot pounds and then to final torque.

prs

It just makes getting the wheel off and on a bit easier....nothing to do with removing the lug nuts. Because I lay mine over I put the suspension on 25 and assume those doing the center stand method would also do that.


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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 08:33 PM
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I use a air impact to take mine off. I just use a swivel socket. I do agree that re-install should be done by hand.

Swivel impact sockets are a bit expensive . I would not buy one just to take off the lug nuts. A swivel adapter adds too much length, making the angle too tight.
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Last edited by LarryM; 02-13-2017 at 08:36 PM.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 01:02 AM
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Lug nuts too tight to break loose? I discovered this last September. I located a length of pipe to add to my ratchet, but it was toooooo long. I positioned it on the lug nut, bracing. The bar against the grind. From what I felt was a safe distance, had my buddy crank the Wng and place it in reverse. We started by just, very lightly, bumping the starter button. The rear wheel took up the slack and stopped. We eventually moved to bumping and made a wonderful discovery: the tongue of reverse is low enough (read slow speed) that it gradually breaks the lug nuts loose! I was VERY apprehensive about doing this, but was out of options. By the time we got to the 3rd nut, it was a piece of cake.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 01:30 AM
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As others have suggested:



A.) Remove the Lug Nuts with a Large Ratchet or a Breaker bar. An Impact Gun, of any sort, is definitely NOT needed.

B.) DO NOT ever use an Impact Gun to put Lug Nuts back on anything, and that would certainly include your Goldwing. Ideally you want to use a Torque Wrench in a Star Pattern to tighten Lug Nuts. Do it incorrectly and after the first time you significantly heat cycle the Brake Rotors they will be become ever so slightly warped. In the neighborhood of just a half a thousandth of an inch, or less. This is typically not enough to cause any noticeable braking performance issues for most folks; but it is often more than enough to cause a brake squeal that can be difficult to repair, short of replacing the rotors on a motorcycle.

If you ever have the opportunity; use an Impact Gun to tighten the Lug Nuts on a Wheel. Make note of the order that you tightened them with the Impact Gun. THEN take out your Torque Wrench and see just exactly how much Torque it takes to Remove the First Lug Nut you tightened with the Impact Gun. It's not unusual to find that it will take upwards of 200 to 300 Lb/Ft (or more) Torque to make that Lug Nut start turning. Each successive Lug Nut in your Tightening Sequence with the Impact Gun will be slightly different. These high Torque values are caused by the slight distortion of the Wheel that occurs as each successive Lug Nut is tightened. As each successive Lug Nut is tightened with the Impact Gun; previously tightened Lug Nuts come under increasing loads from a very slight but critical distortion of the wheel as the next Lug Nut is tightened. This unequal stress load, created in this way, is transmitted to the Brake Rotors. Heat Cycle the Brake Rotors, and when they cool, they will be ever so slightly (and permanently) warped as a result of this. Full floating Brake Rotors are an exception, but placing undo stress on any Wheel is never a good idea.

Another "experiment" is to tighten one Lug Nut with an Impact Gun . . . and then measure the gap between the Wheel and the Hub it mounts to, directly opposite from the Lug Nut you just tightened with that Impact Gun. Cast Wheels not as much as Steel Wheels . . . but it is measurable with a Feeler Gauge or a Dial Indicator on either. You can tighten the other Lug Nuts to remove that Gap, but the leverage that places on the first Lug Nut is significant.


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Last edited by Bluehighways; 02-14-2017 at 01:38 AM.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 04:53 AM
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Any tool in the wrong hands can be abused, whether it is an air tool or a hand tool. Anybody who could inadvertently put 300 lb ft of torque on a lug nut is not very mechanically inclined, and probably should stay away from ALL tools of any kind.

Twice a year, I have to swap snow tires on two cars. I do use my impact to re-install the lugs on the cars. But I am reasonable about it. I put the impact on its lowest of three settings, and I don't sit there letting the gun pound on the lugs. I just get them snug, so that I can put the car back on the ground. Then, after the car is done, I go around with the torque wrench and finish tightening them to the proper torque.

It is often cold when I do this swap, so I want to get done quick. I can get each side done in 5 minutes with the impact.

I don't re-install with the impact on the Wing only because you don't really gain anything in that tight space, and it's only one wheel.

FWIW, checking torque while removing a bolt is not a valid test of how much torque was put on a bolt. It always takes significantly more torque to remove a bolt than to install it.
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Last edited by LarryM; 02-14-2017 at 05:23 AM.
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