Stumble on 2014 and newer goldwings - Page 2 - GL1800Riders
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post #11 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 11:12 AM
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Do any 2014 and newer Goldwing's still suffer from the Stumble. I am curious because the ECM has changed part numbers in 2014. The part sites state it is not compatible with the 2012 and I'm curious what changed.
Fred Harmon is probably the most knowledgeable guy here on the ECMs. If anyone knows, it's Fred.
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post #12 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 04:11 PM
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My 05 did not. My 15 does have that little stumble at cold engine.
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post #13 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 10:23 AM
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This may liven up this Thread, but it is true. Niether my 2010 nor my 2015 Harley's suffer from any cold driveabilty problems. But my 2013 Goldwing has had a nasty cold engine stumble/flat spot/hesitation (call it what you will) since about 3,000 miles. Many Threads on this here on this Forum. If you don't like it (and I do not) submit a safety complaint on the NHTSA Web site as I and many others have done. The squeeking wheel gets the grease, as the expression goes. NHTSA has already sent one letter to Honda about this . . . more complaints to NHTSA can only help to raise the importance of this issue with NHTSA and by extention Honda.
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post #14 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 12:27 PM
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My 2015 has a bad case of the stumble, almost dropped it a few times taking off from a stop and turning onto a street. Mine has to warm up for at least 5 minutes (until it idles down) before it works properly.

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post #15 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluehighways View Post
This may liven up this Thread, but it is true. Niether my 2010 nor my 2015 Harley's suffer from any cold driveabilty problems. But my 2013 Goldwing has had a nasty cold engine stumble/flat spot/hesitation (call it what you will) since about 3,000 miles. Many Threads on this here on this Forum. If you don't like it (and I do not) submit a safety complaint on the NHTSA Web site as I and many others have done. The squeeking wheel gets the grease, as the expression goes. NHTSA has already sent one letter to Honda about this . . . more complaints to NHTSA can only help to raise the importance of this issue with NHTSA and by extention Honda.
anybody have a link handy to complain?

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post #16 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 10:05 AM
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Based on the responses above, it appears the answer is still yes..they 15's and 16's still stumble even with a new ECM part number. (it may be better though...we'd need Guhl to flash a 15 / 16 to see what it was before to know for sure)

To all the guys guessing as to what causes it... there is no need to guess. It's not a mystery anymore and hasn't been for 2 years. The stock ECM is leaner than the pre 2012 models at the exact RPM ranges the stumble occurs at. This is what the engine is using for fuel mapping before the exhaust heats up enough to move to closed loop FI. Honda leaned it out for some reason (probably to pass a EPA regulation) and now they stumble.

The only proper fix is to re-flash the ECM to restore the missing fuel at that RPM. Guhl motors can do it if it bothers you or you can live with it like I have.

(Side note.... it doesn't actually "fix" the problem of a lean mapped ECM but the device Lewis makes from EC does work to eliminate the stumble by tricking the bike to think the air temp is colder than it is so it delivers more fuel while still in open FI. I suppose it's an option as well but it makes it rich through all the RPM ranges during open loop so it's not ideal or as good as the actual re-flash IMO)

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post #17 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 2WheelNut View Post
Based on the responses above, it appears the answer is still yes..they 15's and 16's still stumble even with a new ECM part number.
I have not seen this issue on my '16. But then that could be due to me being in Southern California where it's not as cold as other areas.

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post #18 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 2WheelNut View Post
Based on the responses above, it appears the answer is still yes..they 15's and 16's still stumble even with a new ECM part number. (it may be better though...we'd need Guhl to flash a 15 / 16 to see what it was before to know for sure)

To all the guys guessing as to what causes it... there is no need to guess. It's not a mystery anymore and hasn't been for 2 years. The stock ECM is leaner than the pre 2012 models at the exact RPM ranges the stumble occurs at. This is what the engine is using for fuel mapping before the exhaust heats up enough to move to closed loop FI. Honda leaned it out for some reason (probably to pass a EPA regulation) and now they stumble.

The only proper fix is to re-flash the ECM to restore the missing fuel at that RPM. Guhl motors can do it if it bothers you or you can live with it like I have.

(Side note.... it doesn't actually "fix" the problem of a lean mapped ECM but the device Lewis makes from EC does work to eliminate the stumble by tricking the bike to think the air temp is colder than it is so it delivers more fuel while still in open FI. I suppose it's an option as well but it makes it rich through all the RPM ranges during open loop so it's not ideal or as good as the actual re-flash IMO)
Sorry, I'm a little confused by this. If the stumble is caused because the ECM on 2012 and later models is "leaner", then are you saying that the pre 2012 models don't stumble?

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post #19 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 11:49 AM
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Sorry, I'm a little confused by this. If the stumble is caused because the ECM on 2012 and later models is "leaner", then are you saying that the pre 2012 models don't stumble?
Correct.

Or at a minimum, they don't stumble because of the leaning of the ECM that was done in 2012 and what some might perceive as a stumble on the pre-2012 is not the same stumble as the 2012 and later ones.

Personally, I've never felt a stumble on a pre 2012 and I've ridden a few of them.

I believe EVERY 2012-2104 (and possibly 15/16 depending on if Honda fixed the mapping) will exhibit the stumble given the right circumstances.

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post #20 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 2WheelNut View Post
(Side note.... it doesn't actually "fix" the problem of a lean mapped ECM but the device Lewis makes from EC does work to eliminate the stumble by tricking the bike to think the air temp is colder than it is so it delivers more fuel while still in open FI. I suppose it's an option as well but it makes it rich through all the RPM ranges during open loop so it's not ideal or as good as the actual re-flash IMO)
Lewis was adamant that his enhancer does not interfere with the signal from the IAT sensor once the engine is in closed loop.
I asked him how that was possible. I didn't get an engineering type answer that made sense to me. He kept reiterating that at steady throttle the IAT signal will not be adjusted by his enhancer.

It seems to me that since the IAT output signal to the ECM is a constant signal regardless of open or closed loop, the ECM would always get an adjusted signal from the IAT.
Or, does the ECM ignore the IAT signal once in closed loop?
Anyone know?

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