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Warning - no Plexus on Schuberth Visors

10K views 27 replies 17 participants last post by  bigderek07 
#1 ·
My wife and I both have new Schuberth C3 helmets this season and while preparing for a yellowstone and Black Hills trip we start this Friday, I used Pluxus on my helmet to clean it up after my recent California trip.

It worked fine on the outside of the visor but I got a bad scare when I used it on the pin-lock inner visor. When I wiped the Plexus off, it left a marble like surface that partially distorted my view. I was not a happy camper.

This morning I called Schuberth and got some assistance on another small issue and then told them of my disappointment in respect to using Plexus and not providing an adequate warning. In talking to the polite lady from Schuberth, she pointed out that it does say on page 58 of the 67 page English section of the manual that you should not use any cleaning agents. I explained that few users are likely to ever read 67 pages of a helmet manual.

In the end, she volunteered to send out a new pin-lock to arrive prior to our Friday evening departure.

I was unhappy about the reaction to Plexus, but pleased by Schuberth's positive handling of the problem.
 
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#3 ·
This morning I called Schuberth and got some assistance on another small issue and then told them of my disappointment in respect to using Plexus and not providing an adequate warning. In talking to the polite lady from Schuberth, she pointed out that it does say on page 58 of the 67 page English section of the manual that you should not use any cleaning agents. I explained that few users are likely to ever read 67 pages of a helmet manual.

Damn, what could they possibly say in 68 pages about a helmet. I would think that warning should be on Page 1. Glad they stepped up to the plate and replaced the damaged part.
 
#4 ·
Good to hear of great customer service.
Sounds like they went way beyond what they would have to.
 
#7 ·
It's people like you who make it impossible for companies to operate in this country. We were lucky that Schuberth decided to re-enter the US market in spite of people like you who deliberately misuse a product and then whine and cry that they're being abused by the company that made it. I suspect they won't be here in the US for long.

It says very clearly in my C3 manual to use a damp cloth only on the pinlock visor. But no: you've always used Plexus to clean visors and you're going to continue to do so regardless of its applicability to this particular product and of course you can't be bothered to read the manual.

Apparently you're one of those special people who is exempt from being personally responsible for his actions, such as reading the manual and complying with the limitations therein. You and only you screwed up the pinlock visor, but instead of acknowledging your responsibility and simply buying a new visor, you decided you'd try to scam a free replacement from Schuberth. Who needs responsibility when you can pout that Schuberth should have provided a babysitter to go along with the helmet to make you do what you should do.

I suppose you can take comfort in the fact that there are a lot of people like you these days, but God help us all.

Your "free" replacement visor has to be paid for. I and all of Schuberth's customers will have to pay for it, as well as all future Schuberth customers, until Schuberth decides it's not worth trying to do business in this country anymore.
 
#9 ·
Perhaps the warning label should be on the Plexus????? Only use on some plastics.....
 
#10 ·
My biggest question about this is, what kind of cheap plastic is this that it can be damaged by a products as inert as Plexus?

Regardless of whether the manual had a warning or not, I would not want to own a product like that.
 
#11 ·
It's people like you who make it impossible for companies to operate in this country. We were lucky that Schuberth decided to re-enter the US market in spite of people like you who deliberately misuse a product and then whine and cry that they're being abused by the company that made it. I suspect they won't be here in the US for long.

It says very clearly in my C3 manual to use a damp cloth only on the pinlock visor. But no: you've always used Plexus to clean visors and you're going to continue to do so regardless of its applicability to this particular product and of course you can't be bothered to read the manual.

Apparently you're one of those special people who is exempt from being personally responsible for his actions, such as reading the manual and complying with the limitations therein. You and only you screwed up the pinlock visor, but instead of acknowledging your responsibility and simply buying a new visor, you decided you'd try to scam a free replacement from Schuberth. Who needs responsibility when you can pout that Schuberth should have provided a babysitter to go along with the helmet to make you do what you should do.

I suppose you can take comfort in the fact that there are a lot of people like you these days, but God help us all.

Your "free" replacement visor has to be paid for. I and all of Schuberth's customers will have to pay for it, as well as all future Schuberth customers, until Schuberth decides it's not worth trying to do business in this country anymore.
ok so people in foreign countries are glad to give thier money away, maybe in the foreign land of tn everyone already knows everthing and they would never make a mistake
 
#12 ·
ok so people in foreign countries are glad to give thier money away, maybe in the foreign land of tn everyone already knows everthing and they would never make a mistake
I don't know what brought on his tirade, and I don't want to know, :shrug: but something tells me it's probably best to just let it die peacefully.
 
#13 ·
It's people like you who make it impossible for companies to operate in this country. We were lucky that Schuberth decided to re-enter the US market in spite of people like you who deliberately misuse a product and then whine and cry that they're being abused by the company that made it. I suspect they won't be here in the US for long.

It says very clearly in my C3 manual to use a damp cloth only on the pinlock visor. But no: you've always used Plexus to clean visors and you're going to continue to do so regardless of its applicability to this particular product and of course you can't be bothered to read the manual.

Apparently you're one of those special people who is exempt from being personally responsible for his actions, such as reading the manual and complying with the limitations therein. You and only you screwed up the pinlock visor, but instead of acknowledging your responsibility and simply buying a new visor, you decided you'd try to scam a free replacement from Schuberth. Who needs responsibility when you can pout that Schuberth should have provided a babysitter to go along with the helmet to make you do what you should do.

I suppose you can take comfort in the fact that there are a lot of people like you these days, but God help us all.

Your "free" replacement visor has to be paid for. I and all of Schuberth's customers will have to pay for it, as well as all future Schuberth customers, until Schuberth decides it's not worth trying to do business in this country anymore.
Sorry, but I side with the folks who say that 67 pages of instructions on a helmet is the problem. I'd like to ask you - can you honestly say you would have read all 67 or more pages yourself before using the helmet? Or before using what it generally regarded as a cleaner that is commonly bought and used for cleaning windshields to clean it without sorting through 67 pages?

I just bought a new car. I'm not exaggerating this - it has four owners manuals that all told are nearly a thousand pages. What do you think is our responsibility for reading all of it before operating our vehicle?
 
#14 ·
Wow, that is a horrible thing to happen. This is what I use and have had no problems (I've never purchased from this vendor, using the link just as an example). 210;

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/210cleaner.php
Several of the visor parts are coated with an anti-fog coating and this is where the issue is with cleaners and polishes. They appear (pardon the pun) to mess up the coating. Knowing this, I expect that any cleaner or polish is a no-no.

Just as it does say on page 58 not to use cleaning agents it does not say anything about using sandpaper on it either. That rare common sense commodity just keeps getting rarer and rarer.
Isn't life great when you are perfect and diligent enough to read every page of a 67 page manual for a helmet? But then I expect you also read the information on Plexus that says it is safe to use on "all plastics" and lists helmet visors as the top item in their applications examples list. Using a plastic polish to help keep a visor clean and shedding rain more effectively is just a little different than sandpaper, but then I guess I am not quite as prone to exaggeration and extremes.


It's people like you who make it impossible for companies to operate in this country. We were lucky that Schuberth decided to re-enter the US market in spite of people like you who deliberately misuse a product and then whine and cry that they're being abused by the company that made it. I suspect they won't be here in the US for long.

It says very clearly in my C3 manual to use a damp cloth only on the pinlock visor. But no: you've always used Plexus to clean visors and you're going to continue to do so regardless of its applicability to this particular product and of course you can't be bothered to read the manual.

Apparently you're one of those special people who is exempt from being personally responsible for his actions, such as reading the manual and complying with the limitations therein. You and only you screwed up the pinlock visor, but instead of acknowledging your responsibility and simply buying a new visor, you decided you'd try to scam a free replacement from Schuberth. Who needs responsibility when you can pout that Schuberth should have provided a babysitter to go along with the helmet to make you do what you should do.

I suppose you can take comfort in the fact that there are a lot of people like you these days, but God help us all.

Your "free" replacement visor has to be paid for. I and all of Schuberth's customers will have to pay for it, as well as all future Schuberth customers, until Schuberth decides it's not worth trying to do business in this country anymore.
To quote one of your earlier posts, "There are a lot of holier-than-thou types on this site, aren't there?" It is folks like you that make posting reasonable product knowledge information on this forums such a rewarding experience. Not!

I made a mistake and stated so by pointing out the warning in their manual. I and many others appear to see this error as reasonable and I clearly stated in my friendly warning to others that their manual does say to use soap and water only. Could you please explain how this is either "deliberately misuse a product" or how my posting could be interpreted as "whine and cry that they're being abused by the company"?

You might also note that I stated that Schuberth volunteered to send me a replacement pin-lock. This was a gracious offer on their part, not something I suggested or even hinted at. Perhaps it was due to my call being very reasonable and seeking information without complaining.

Based upon your supposition that my post might make it more difficult for a company like Schuberth to do business in America, I thank you. If you take the time to read other posts I have made regarding the "new to the US" Schuberth C3 and their bluetooth audio system, you'll note that these have been all positive and praised their quality. So, using your twisted logic, I guess I should now take credit if they do well in this market. Thank you!

I can only imagine how bitter your life must be if a simple and fair post like this can push you over the edge in such an unreasonable tirade.

Perhaps the warning label should be on the Plexus????? Only use on some plastics.....
I all honesty I feel Plexus is partially at fault. They state their product is safe for use on "all plastics" and they list motorcycle visors at the top of their applications list on their motorcycle page. The problem is that it may be safe to use on the plastic, but not on a coated plastic and that is not visually apparent.

My biggest question about this is, what kind of cheap plastic is this that it can be damaged by a products as inert as Plexus?

Regardless of whether the manual had a warning or not, I would not want to own a product like that.
This is not an issue of "cheap plastic" in fact, their visor's pin-lock is the opposite. Schuberth uses a specially coated plastic to eliminate fogging and it works great. This is the first helmet I have had that came with a pin-lock shield and I expect this same problem would apply to any brand of helmet and a coated pin-lock shield.

The biggest issue, from my perspective, is how does a company effectively warn people of a common procedure that will damage their product? In this case, I feel that a sticker, warning of the lens coating, would be appropriate. I also feel that Plexus should clearly state that their product should not be used on coated plastics, rather than state it as being safe for "all" plastics because it clearly is not good for coated plastics. (Sorry hansong, now I guess I'll drive Plexus out of business.)

This thread was started to share knowledge with fellow 'wingers and I hope it might save one or two from a similar error. For those with bitter and closed minds... well, who cares about them anyway?
 
#15 ·
Daddio it has nothing to do with being perfect. It has everything to do with being on earth long enough to know that plastics and chemicals often have reactions to one another. Ever pour paint thinner into a styrofoam cup? The fact is we take gambles everyday when we put anything on plastic like you did. The visor company had every right to tell you to pound sand but they did a stand up thing by sending you a new visor.
 
#16 ·
Daddio it has nothing to do with being perfect. It has everything to do with being on earth long enough to know that plastics and chemicals often have reactions to one another. Ever pour paint thinner into a styrofoam cup? The fact is we take gambles everyday when we put anything on plastic like you did. The visor company had every right to tell you to pound sand but they did a stand up thing by sending you a new visor.
Plexus does say that it is safe to use on "all plastics" and indeed, it is made to specifically to clean and polish plastics. To the best of my knowledge, styrofoam cups were not designed as a paint thinner container nor do their manufacturers advertise specifically that they are safe for "all" liquids.

I do agree that Schuberth did not owe me a new pin-lock and I did not ask for one. In my conversation with the pleasant lady from Schuberth I had mentioned how pleased I was with their SRC audio system and that my wife and I were looking forward to enjoying it on our 5,000 trip we depart on this Friday. She asked for my mailing address and stated she would send out a new pin-lock to arrive before our departure date.
 
#17 ·
Perhaps you will now be just as successful convincing the nice lady at Plexus to send you a can that says on the label it's "safe to use on almost all plastics." Keep in mind that the folks at Plexus may very well be safe in making the claim that it's safe on all plastics but they clearly make no claim regarding it being just as safe for all plastic "coatings" which many visors have. It's a live and learn world regardless of manuals, warning labels and consumer lawyers.
And regarding the Styrofoam cup analogy, I was pointing out chemical reactions, not possible uses or misuses of Styrofoam cups. But you knew that, right? Right?
 
#18 ·
I don't know what brought on his tirade, and I don't want to know, :shrug: but something tells me it's probably best to just let it die peacefully.
Sorry, but I side with the folks who say that 67 pages of instructions on a helmet is the problem. I'd like to ask you - can you honestly say you would have read all 67 or more pages yourself before using the helmet? Or before using what it generally regarded as a cleaner that is commonly bought and used for cleaning windshields to clean it without sorting through 67 pages?

I just bought a new car. I'm not exaggerating this - it has four owners manuals that all told are nearly a thousand pages. What do you thing is our responsibility for reading all of it before operating our vehicle?
It's disappointing -- but not surprising -- to see the tenor of the responses about this incident.

The evasion of personal responsibility lies behind most of the problems we face today. Consider the economic catastrophe we're facing, because of our natural inclination to delegate the big-picture stuff to someone else while we go about the business of living our own lives.

The result of forgetting that we're --you, me, us -- responsible for the affairs of the country led to the creation of Mordor-On-The-Potomac, where flaky, criminal, irresponsible bozos have created policies that are destroying this country. Sure, we can point fingers at the various individual bozos and cluck that they should have done better. But the ultimate responsibility is ours. And I'm just as guilty as anyone for not paying enough attention to the economic, moral and political mess we're in.

It's no less true for the matter of a $40 pinlock visor. The OP didn't do his homework. Yes, it is Your Responsibility to read some or all of the manual if you need to know something about your helmet.

When I was curious about cleaning the visors in my new C3 I didn't just whip out my Plexus or 210 or 0000 steel wool or whatever, I pulled the manual out, looked up the subject in the table of contents, turned to the page and read the short note about cleaning.

Didn't read all 67 pages, just the one that applied. What an imposition, eh?

For a $700 helmet you can bet I'll read the manual before cleaning the visor, or removing the visor, or doing anything at all with the visor. Hell, I may throw caution to the winds and read it twice!

If you screw up a visor, buy a new one. Don't try to shift blame to someone else. I'll own up to butchering my first C2 in an attempt to install a headset; I still hear about that one from my wife. But I didn't blame Schuberth, Extreme Supply or Autocom. I gritted my teeth and bought a new helmet. I was less than happy about the situation, but I also knew who was responsible for it.

Your GL1800 owner's manual has many more pages than the C3 manual. Is that too many to read?

How many oil threads have there been in the life of this forum because people are apparently incapable of reading? After all, since 30W worked fine in the '54 Ford I learned to drive in, why shouldn't it work in the Wing? Oil is oil, right?

Manual, schmanuals, who needs 'em? Real men don't read manuals or even just the relevant parts, do they?

No, they blunder ahead and when the predictable occurs, they whine, cry and hire a lawyer.



I hope this answers your question to your satisfaction, Larry.

jjsC6, if the "tirade" above doesn't make clear my thoughts on the subject, the short answer is of course you are responsible for all of the information about your car. It's your car, isn't it? Who else would be responsible?




P.S. The airplane I currently fly has a manual with probably a couple of thousand pages. The company doesn't even provide paper copies and all the binders anymore; the revisions are on CD now.

A lot of that is tables of performance data that's incorporated into the performance computers we use, but there are many hundreds of pages of systems operations and flight operations.

Which of those am I entitled to blow off? Because it's just too much trouble to read all that boring stuff? And could you give me that in writing to show a check airman or FAA inspector? Thanks.
 
#19 ·
My wife and I both have new Schuberth C3 helmets this season and while preparing for a yellowstone and Black Hills trip we start this Friday, I used Pluxus on my helmet to clean it up after my recent California trip.

It worked fine on the outside of the visor but I got a bad scare when I used it on the pin-lock inner visor. When I wiped the Plexus off, it left a marble like surface that partially distorted my view. I was not a happy camper.

This morning I called Schuberth and got some assistance on another small issue and then told them of my disappointment in respect to using Plexus and not providing an adequate warning. In talking to the polite lady from Schuberth, she pointed out that it does say on page 58 of the 67 page English section of the manual that you should not use any cleaning agents. I explained that few users are likely to ever read 67 pages of a helmet manual.

In the end, she volunteered to send out a new pin-lock to arrive prior to our Friday evening departure.

I was unhappy about the reaction to Plexus, but pleased by Schuberth's positive handling of the problem.
Daddo
Being that I read and was able to comprehend what you had posted I wouldn't worry one bit about how some folks have responded. As you also mentioned in a later post Plexus also mentions on the can that it is safe to use on all plastics. I'm sure that a few will now flame me for my response, but so be it. I stand by my earlier post that a 67 page manual for a helmet is absurd and at the very least the warning and cleaning instructions should have been on the very first page and not page 58. :wrong:
 
#20 ·
Daddo
I stand by my earlier post that a 67 page manual for a helmet is absurd and at the very least the warning and cleaning instructions should have been on the very first page and not page 58.

Couldn't agree more!

The important,useful information is buried within boilerplate legalese that obscures what you need to know and makes it difficult or impossible to find.

But the reason for that situation? Manuals used to be simpler and more clear and usable. It only took a few decades of product liability lawsuits, and lots of hungry lawyers with BMW payments to make, to take simple and clear and turn it into unreadable.

We have only ourselves to blame.
 
#22 ·
I really didn't want to get dragged into this, but I guess I had it coming. And Hansong did not make it easy to ignore since he sent his post in a private message to Jim and I.

No, I'm sorry hansong. Your explanation does not satisfy me.

I have worked in service for over 40 years, so I don't need anyone preaching to me about customers who don't take responsibility for their actions. I have dealt with the dark side of customers and the way they abuse products more times than I care to remember.

But Daddo's post was not an intent to bash Schuberth or their products. He made the post to inform owners of Schuberth products of the cleaning requirement in case anyone didn't know. He acknowledged his mistake. He did share his displeasure to the customer service rep, and I think his complaint was justified. If he had used something like an ammonia based product, which is known to attack plastic, then we could have just said Duh!

Regardless of the warnings you put into a manual, it is inexcusable for any product to be made so poorly that it cannot withstand common mild cleaning products that even the cheapest helmet can handle without damage. The worst part is, these are very expensive helmets. I would expect more.

I consider abuse to be when a customer does something that would be considered by most people to be unreasonable. What he did was not unreasonable. There are many things in life that you should be able to expect without having to read about it in a manual. Even though I don't care for Plexus, it has a long standing reputation as a safe product. If it had been me, I would have searched for an aftermarket replacement part that was better quality, and would never purchase another one of Schuberth's products due to their poor ability to handle normal day to day use.

What would your opinion be of an aftermarket windshield if the instructions said that you cannot use anything but water to clean it, when you can use a variety of cleaning products on every other windshield out there.

You popped your lid earlier in this thread. It was way over the top, and wasn't necessary. If I had wanted to debate you on the topic, I would have done so. I didn't need to be baited in a private message.
 
#23 ·
MY REPLY TO HANSONG....

You'll be happy to know that conceptually I agree with your post - I too get very frustrated when people don't think they are responsible for their own actions. But there is a concept call "contributory negligence" in legal terms. It means that yes, a car did not yield to my right of way and pulled out in front of me. However, I was going 100 mph in a 35 mph zone when I ran into him. who's fault was it - the guy who pulled out from a stop sign, or the guy going 65mph over the speed limit? Answer is a little of both.

In the same vein, when Acura (my new car) has 1000 pages of manual, I expect them to find a way to put the really important "if you don't do this your car will be ruined" information in an easy to read format. In the case of the helmet, there could have been a sticker on the helmet or tied to a string on the helmet that said "caution, some cleaners typically used for shields could ruin this shield".

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here. Yes, it may be my fault if I don't due my homework sufficiently, but I may not buy their product again or recommend it to my friends if I think they were lacking in some important way.

Common sense customer satisfaction isn't always doing what's legal, it's doing what's right.
 
#24 ·
This has nothing to do with Schuberth, nothing to do with the C3, and nothing to do with plastic. You cannot use Plexus on anti-fog compounds; it screws them up. The Pinlock is coated with such chemicals so you have to clean it with warm water and optionally a small amount of soap dissolved in the water.
 
#25 ·
This has nothing to do with Schuberth, nothing to do with the C3, and nothing to do with plastic. You cannot use Plexus on anti-fog compounds; it screws them up. The Pinlock is coated with such chemicals so you have to clean it with warm water and optionally a small amount of soap dissolved in the water.
I won't dispute any of what you have posted but I find it ridiculous that given the fact that such care has to be taken to clean the Pinlock you would think that Schuberth would provide a better means of informing the customer rather then putting the cleaning instructions on page 58 of a 67 page helmet manual. A simple sticker on the helmet that says....Warning, Clean Pinlock With Water Only. Refer To Cleaning Instructions Before Cleaning. I would think this would better serve the customer on the proper cleaning method.
 
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