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No easy ride: Motorcycle industry is in deep trouble and needs help fast, panel agree

13K views 173 replies 52 participants last post by  OregonWinger 
#1 ·
No easy ride: Motorcycle industry is in deep trouble and needs help fast, panel agrees

L A. Times

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-motorcycle-summit-20171214-story.html

"A group of two dozen concerned motorcycle veterans has published a comprehensive research document that addresses the question, “Can this industry be saved?”

Maybe, it concluded, but it’s not going to be easy."


So, the industry -finally- understands the problem, and puts the blame on us Baby Boomers.

Gee, thanks, dad!
 
#127 ·
If Guy Martin can race an electric bike at the Isle of Man, then who knows wtf is in the future. I always find it comical though to listen to people talk about how their saving the environment by using electric vehicles without having a clue what it takes to make that electricity or how to dispose of the batteries. >:)
Here's a pic of Guy at the IoMTT.
 

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#131 ·
Unfortunately, most people aren't systems engineers or even all that savvy technically and our schools don't teach even the basics anymore, so people see only their little corner of the world and don't have a clue what is behind the scenes. A very large portion of today's electric vehicles actually burn coal or uranium. :grin2:
 
#139 ·
Not sure I agree with this article. The outlaw biker started after WW II not Vietnam, most states (may be all) require motorcycle classroom instruction and the number of drivers for work increases significantly the farther south you go. I firmly believe that "dumb" machines will never be forced off the road in the foreseeable future. They might be restricted from certain roads however.

IMHO, it sounds like something I often see in Europe - the belief that they know America just because they watch our TV and films. :frown2:
 
#142 ·
Being in the industry I can say the hardest thing is to change the perspective related to this sport. There are so many preconceptions.

Motorcycles have to be fast
Motorcycles have to make noise
Trikes are for old guys with bad knees
Real men shift
Motorcycles are for only men

It's no secret that the general MC population is getting older and older. Young people are not interested in anything but sport bikes and then only as a part time detour from iphones and snap chat. CanAm and others are busy trying to convince riders that trikes built around steering and handling can be just as much fun or more for all ages and all genders but it's a hard case to argue as the misconception is trikes of this type are not fun and don't offer any advantages. Large bikes like the new GL are not appealing to the younger crowd as it does not fit the fashion and daredevil persona like an impractical crotch rocket. Automatic transmissions remove the driver experience which most macho man riders require. The MC industry is in real pearl much like our society in general. So much slanted information and so much need to belong. I certainly don't have the answer and i doubt right now anyone does.
 
#145 ·
#144 ·
What the motorcycle industry needs is a Captain America Sequel.

This time, instead of those funky rigid frame chopper have bikes laden with technology.

Instead of smoking pot and hippies, they should have electronic music and synthetic ecstasy drugs...vaping for smokes.


You know, to attract the younger generation
 
#151 ·
While Tesla is doing interesting things, I’d rather see them do it on their own back. They’re only viable as long as the government subsidizes them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#152 ·
I understand the feeling however it's really the only way progress related to common sense energy is going to happen. Tesla is the first new car company in the US in over 80 years. Musk more than makes up for the subsidies in all the money he is saving us in space travel, solar, not to mention battery tech.
Much like Bill Gates Elon Musk is going to change the world.

Now if we can get some of this tech into the MC market I would be fine with it. Just not the space part.
 
#153 ·
I seriously doubt electric motorcycles will bring many millennials into the sport. I have millennials in and out of my house all the time. When they see the bikes in the garage and the subject of riding comes up, not once has the thought of an electric motorcycle been brought up. They are just not interested in riding, period.
 
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#156 ·
I agree, if or when electric motorcycles exceed the performance of gasoline powered ones in every way, (performance,cost, style, available charging stations, etc) then they will become a viable option, but only to those that are already interested in riding a motorcycle. I don't believe that there is nobody not riding a motorcycle today simply because it's power by gasoline. I really believe a resurgence in motorcycle riders will come from a reconfiguration of attitudes, not a reconfiguration motorcycles. An infotainment system, ride modes, electric motorcycle, is not going to make someone not interested in riding, want to.
 
#154 ·
I guess I am quite ignorant but I just don't understand the labeling thing we Americans suddenly have. It's almost like we need a group to pin the blame on every time something goes wrong. Conservatives, Liberals, Millennials, Coots.
I don't know exactly what a Millennial is nor do I understand the basis behind pretty much any other label. I do know the Motorsports direction is changing but I just don't know what that direction is. I suppose I pretty much don't know anything - is there a label for that?


I am sure one is on it's way now :)
 
#155 ·
The term "millennial" is not meant to be derogatory, at least with my use of the term. It's just an age group - like "baby boomers". Typically from early 20's to mid 30's. My kids and kids-in-law fall into the upper age portion of that group. They, and the majority of their friends I've discussed motorcycling with, are just not interested for a variety of reasons.

And, I took no government grant money to provide this research. >:)
 
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#158 · (Edited)
I say bah humbug to all this gloom and doom.

We have millennial kids and so do our friends.

Two of them rides quads and motorcycles. One just bought a Harley forty-eight at the end of last summer and another rides a Victory. They both have friends that ride and modify bikes.

They also have new competing hobbies I never had..... the so called tech stuff. iPhones, iPads, robot competitions and quadcopters. They are busy and not lazy slugs that I’m reading about.

I think kids have more options today than we had and motorcycles will be competing for their time and will likely get reduced in the overall picture. It’s called evolution. Without evolution we would all be discussing the newest, fastest hoop and stick or faceless doll.

A person only has so much time..... as stuff gets added to consume their time, there is likely going to be a reduction in another area or hobby.
 
#161 ·
Me thinks that electric motorcycles will for the most part, have very different customer base. Electric bikes will attract those looking for clean and economical transportation. It won't do much for those who love the rumble of a V twin or the sound of a strong engine. The latter is a dying breed though. I somehow don't think electric bikes will endear riders to them as gas powered machines did.

Time will tell.
 
#169 ·
Electric motors torque is due to the size of the armature. I buff aluminum, stainless, etc with a 1hp electric motor that probably weighs 80lbs or more. No matter how much you press a piece of metal into it, you will not stop it. I also have 1hp electric motors that weigh less than 2lbs that I could probably grab by hand and stop them.
 
#170 · (Edited)
Thanks for that Captain Obvious! :) That's like claiming that a bigger hammer can exert more force than a small one. (just messing with you, kind of)

Not aimed directly at you Racer, but you guys really don't want to delve into electric motor theory here. While the concept of a rotating mass passing through a magnetic field is basic Electronics 101, motor theory is actually a very complex, highly specialized field of electronics that even most electrical engineers stay away from. (unless that is their field of study.) Motor engineers are in high demand. There are not enough of them to go around. It's a very lucrative, high paying field for a young engineer to get into.

The massive torque available from electric motors at startup is actually intentionally dialed back with modifications to the design in order to counter undesirable side effects.

Unlike gasoline engines, where every design is based on a single core concept, electric motors are based on a nearly endless choice of technologies (some of which haven't been discovered yet.) Those choices enable an engineer to develop a motor with virtually any characteristic you could want. There are small motors that can lift a car from a dead stop, and huge motors that you can practically prevent startup with your hand. The moment you say that an electric motor can't do something, an engineer can usually give you a motor that can.

Purge from your minds what you have learned in your life about rpm and torque and size. None of that knowledge translates to electric motors.
 
#172 ·
To get back on the subject - this Harley's view of slack motorcycle sales. Dated yesterday - https://apnews.com/1188a04313054037...,-Harley-Davidson-wants-to-teach-more-to-ride
It's a good start, before you can get them to take a class, you have to get them to WANT to ride. You have to get them to think, "That might be fun." And you aren't going to do that with a lineup of bikes that were designed for your grandfather's taste in motorcycles. I'm not sure they will ever figure that out. It would be like the music companies trying to get kids to listen to 60s bubble gum music.
 
#173 · (Edited)
I think there’s a glut of available used bikes and people are capitalizing on that. This happened after the great recession a decade ago with people shedding extra cars, trucks and RVs when gas prices were high. After a good decade we have finally worked through the used inventory of used car, truck and RV’s and new sales are doing well.

I think motorcycles have lagged this trend and we still need to work through the used bike inventory. Until we do, I think new motorcycle sales will be sluggish. Used bikes are a bargain and folks know it and are voting with their wallets.
 

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