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Bike shaking while breaking with rear break!

5K views 29 replies 20 participants last post by  Illiniwinger 
#1 ·
Changed break pads 4000 miles ago and today while riding in the mountains I started to feel the rear shaking while breaking till to the point that also mirrors were shaking!
this does not happen every time I use the rear break but mainly when it gets used going down hill.
what could cause this thing?
 
#2 ·
I had the same thing happen on my 2004 earlier this year heading down into Death Valley. Was told by a fellow rider and bike mechanic that I most likely had a small bubble of air in my brake system. I have since flushed my brakes but have not yet ridden in the mountains to see if the problem is solved. It was suggested that I not just use my rear brakes but both front and rear when decending and that did help alleviate the problem while in Death Valley
 
#3 ·
You should always use front brake as well as rear brake...

Most of the bike's braking capability is on the front wheel.

Personally, I nearly always gear down and let the engine do most of the braking work....

rarely hit the brakes at more that 35 mph
 
#4 ·
Having the same issues. Mine started 2 weeks ago when I change the rear brakes only. Changed the front brakes on Friday and thought that cured the issue. Went for a ride on Saturday and everything was great for the first 125 miles then the shudder started again.
Dealer and Honda have no response to this.
Several members state to used both brakes at the same time.
I did notice that if you apply the front brake first then the rear the shudder is not as bad but is still there.
My issues if I am going into a turn hard and hit unseen gravel the front brake is not what I want to be using.
I had riding my bike for 40,xxx miles and never had this issue. I have always ridden my rear brake slightly entering a turn and have never had this issue.
I am going to try bleeding the system at the PCV and hoping this will fix the issue.
 
#7 ·
Rocky is banned,and he deleted his post on this, but here is mine,

Most likely you have somehow gotten a small air bubble in the rear brake line system. This air bubble migrates up to the highest point on the GL1800 lines which is a T shaped fitting up under the cowl (lower left side sitting on bike) it’s for the rear system. I found this fix from Harvey a board member in Texas. He had Honda replacing about everything under the sun and bleeding brakes multiple times until the Tech figured it out on his own. The fix is to have a helper put pressure on the rear brake pedal and then reach up under the cowl from the front, find that T shaped fitting (10mm line wrench)slightly break it lose let the fluid in the line push out the air in that fitting. You must do this 2-3 times with a shop rag so no brake fluid gets on anything. This small air bubble in the line causes the rear system to osculate and that’s why we get the shudder and low rear brake pedal. The normal Honda brake bleeding process doesn’t seam to be able to get this air out because after every pump and release the air bubble just climbs back to this high spot in the fitting. What we really need is a pressure brake bleed so that there is sold pressure 5-10lbs being applied to force this high spot of air out without pumping and stopping. I had Rocky help me yesterday on my 2012 level 3 Wing. It started this shudder and soft rear brake pedal in hot weather after I leaned it over to change tires or possibly after I dropped it on the left side one day! Maybe a little air entered the master I am guessing? Who knows? I tried everything, new OEM pads (even though the old pads only had 8000miles on them) bled the brakes 4 times, cleaned the rotors and the caliper pistons when I was doing the pad exchange, but still had the problem until we loosened that fitting to get the air out. Hopes this works for you, Just passing this along Regards Eldon
 
#9 ·
Thanks for posting. Everyone keeps talking about Rocky's method.
Is this the correct location to bleed?

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#10 ·
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#13 ·
Having issues getting nut loose on the brake line at junction block. Got a 10mm flare nut wrench and cut down to 4" like someone had posted due to clearance issues. Can't break the dam nut loose? Any suggestions?
 
#14 ·
I had the same problem last year while riding the tail of the dragon. I talked to a few dealers and they all suggested using high temp racing brake fluid along with using the front brake more often when going through the curves.
Having issues getting nut loose on the brake line at junction block. Got a 10mm flare nut wrench and cut down to 4" like someone had posted due to clearance issues. Can't break the dam nut loose? Any suggestions?
 
#15 ·
#17 ·
Got the nut loose and the system bled. I cut the wrench down to 4" like in Rocky's post. Problem was I could not get enough leverage. Bought another wrench and it barely fit without cutting it and after a lot of pulling she popped loose.
Heading out later to see if this cures my shudders.
 
#18 ·
Got the nut loose and the system bled. I cut the wrench down to 4" like in Rocky's post. Problem was I could not get enough leverage. Bought another wrench and it barely fit without cutting it and after a lot of pulling she popped loose.
Heading out later to see if this cures my shudders.
Well, did it do any good?:shrug:
 
#19 ·
No it did NOT help. Took it into the dealer to have it looked at. They did the brake recall for the second time and said everything looked ok (And did not charge me for 2 days worth of work). Picked up the bike and it still had the shudder issue. Took it back while the bike and brakes were warm and had them take it for a ride and it did the shudder issue with them. They checked the brakes, bearing and swing arm bearings and everything was tight. They called Honda and mother Honda said it was normal. No way this much shudder is normal. Spoke with another dealer on Friday to make an appointment with them. Parts manager over heard me complaining and suggested that I check the play in the rear pedal and adjust for more free play. Went on 250 mile ride for the best ribs around yesterday and this has seem to make the shudder more manageable. It is still there but with me adjusting the play in the pedal it does not happen until the pedal is pushed 1/2 and then stops the shudder with a littler more pressure. Before I adjusted the pedal as soon as I pressed on the rear brakes it would shudder. Now most would say I have to much play but at least I now can ride. I also purchased a motorcycle tire as dealer number 2 would not even work on it with a CT. I have not had a MT on the bike in 5 years and I will never talk bad about a CT but I will tell you that I enjoyed the ride on the MT tire. Sure is a different feeling and to me a lot easier to hit the turns with less work. I am not sure if I will be talking the bike to dealer #2 next week or just live with the minor shudder issue but do know I will be leaving the MT on until it wears out then go from there.
I am heading down to TN and NC in 3 weeks to go play in the mountains. Hope the MT and brakes do not give me any issues while I am there.
 
#20 ·
It is still there but with me adjusting the play in the pedal it does not happen until the pedal is pushed 1/2 and then stops the shudder with a littler more pressure. Before I adjusted the pedal as soon as I pressed on the rear brakes it would shudder. Now most would say I have to much play but at least I now can ride. I also purchased a motorcycle tire as dealer number 2 would not even work on it with a CT. I have not had a MT on the bike in 5 years and I will never talk bad about a CT but I will tell you that I enjoyed the ride on the MT tire. Sure is a different feeling and to me a lot easier to hit the turns with less work. I am not sure if I will be talking the bike to dealer #2 next week or just live with the minor shudder issue but do know I will be leaving the MT on until it wears out then go from there.
I am heading down to TN and NC in 3 weeks to go play in the mountains. Hope the MT and brakes do not give me any issues while I am there.
Do you not have an OEM peddle on the Wing ??? What do you mean you adjusted the free play ??? Does it pulsate when using both brakes ???

The dealers will probably work on your bike, but in your case it requires test rides. Letting techs who maybe unfamiliar with the Wonky handling of a CT, is probably why they choose not to work on your Wing. Even I, who test rides many with a CT, can catch myself off guard with how they handle at low speed.
 
#21 ·
Do you not have an OEM peddle on the Wing ??? What do you mean you adjusted the free play ??? Does it pulsate when using both brakes ???

The dealers will probably work on your bike, but in your case it requires test rides. Letting techs who maybe unfamiliar with the Wonky handling of a CT, is probably why they choose not to work on your Wing. Even I, who test rides many with a CT, can catch myself off guard with how they handle at low speed.
I have OEM pedal but I have a larger cover over the pedal.
There is an adjustment on the rear master cylinder that adjust the stoke into the cylinder. I backed this adjustment off 2 turns.
Before the adjustment was made, when the rear brakes were applied it would shudder. If I applied front brake first the rear no shudder. if I applied front the rear (no shudder) the let off front brake then the shudder would come back until I let off the rear brake.
I did take it to ASK in Grove City and they did ride it with the car tire and did not have any issues with it on there. The mechanic did mention how different it handled.
 
#22 ·
I have OEM pedal but I have a larger cover over the pedal.
There is an adjustment on the rear master cylinder that adjust the stoke into the cylinder. I backed this adjustment off 2 turns.
Before the adjustment was made, when the rear brakes were applied it would shudder. If I applied front brake first the rear no shudder. if I applied front the rear (no shudder) the let off front brake then the shudder would come back until I let off the rear brake.
Ok ... I see what you mean. The Service Manual does have an measurement for the rod. I wonder how yours measures up. Unfortunately, finding out probably requires that the m/c be removed. If the symptom changes when altering the length, it may mean that the inner bore is worn. Basically, the length needs to be just long enough to uncover the first pin hole in the m/c bore.
 
#24 ·
As has been said "Do the Rocky" brake fluid bleed...if you have done it once, do it again & again & again, until your problem is fixed...you still have some air in the system...
I can't tell you how many times I have bled the system (The Rocky way). Even went out and bought a pneumatic bleeder to use and still the same issue.
The only bleeder I do know get anything out of is the anti-dive valve. Is this normal?
 
#25 ·
the common thread to the issue is that the shudder starts after replacing the pads. how an air bubble got in a closed system is so un likely...............you drop the caliper down swap the pads and bam..........it shudders now. and now we are being told how to brake after many many miles of riding the same way on many different bikes. :shrug:
 
#26 ·
the common thread to the issue is that the shudder starts after replacing the pads. how an air bubble got in a closed system is so un likely...............you drop the caliper down swap the pads and bam..........it shudders now. and now we are being told how to brake after many many miles of riding the same way on many different bikes. :shrug:
I'm with you on this. Something could have gone wrong when replacing the pads and may not have been caught by the person installing them. I have bled the brakes my 05 Wing with ABS everytime according to the Honda Service Manual numerous times and have never had any problems with pedal travel, poor braking, shutter or anything else. And even after flushing the old fluid out letting air get in the system, I still never had problems. I don't use speed bleeders or any other device. I just use the old fashion method with someone pumping the pedal for me as I have been doing for over 50 years of my working on all types of vehicles. What I have found in many of my brake jobs for others, is that the pistons in the calipers are sticking and not moving freely as they should. And when that happens on our Wing brakes, that can cause uneven pressure to be applied to the pads causing uneven surface contact to the rotor. Whenever I do brake jobs, I always remove the calipers to inspect/clean and repair if necessary the pistons for proper movement. I am always reading horror stories of bleeding brakes on Wings but really can't figure out why that is. I'm not trying to be a smarty pants here but rather try to shed some light on the subject for those that have such trouble doing so. I wish all of you success in your brake bleeding methods.
Big H
 
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