Who sells the most motorcycles, Harley or Honda ???
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Thread: Who sells the most motorcycles, Harley or Honda ???

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    Default Who sells the most motorcycles, Harley or Honda ???

    I have heard a lot of talk about who sells the most motorcycles, Harley or Honda.

    Harley sells more cruisers.
    Honda sells more motorcycles (all types,including Cruisers)

    Here is a sales for Honda in 2004
    http://www.hondanews.com/CatID1013?mid= ... 0&mime=asc

    Here is a sales for Harley in 2005 (more than they did in 2004.
    http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4381973

    So, in motorcycle sales it looks like the score is

    Honda 10,876,000 units in 2004

    Harley 348,000 Units 2005

    If you say "Who builds the most of LARGE CRUISER style bikes, then HD wins hands down. But HD does feel the burn of Yamaha, Kawasaki,Honda,Susuki, and others. And all HD owners should be thankful of that as they are now getting a pretty fair bike out of the HD gang.

    There all good.

    PS, I did a lazy search, Just did not look far enough for 2005 sales of Honda.

    Now, lets see who builds the most motorcycles with over 100 HP to the rear wheel. And then over 150 HP to the rear wheel...

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    I think if you wanted to compare apples with apples, you'd have to ask who sells more cruisers, not bikes in general.

    Mike
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    one word.. HARLEY.. last quarter they made 1.6 BILLION. profit...... 5.6 BILLION profit last year.. don't care what anyone says.. they darn sure must be doing something right.... !!!

    cosmic
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    Honda is the largest(sells the most)motorcycles in the world.

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    cosmic_chariot

    Wow, If they sold 350,000 motorcycles that year, and they made 5.6 billion profit that year, how much did each motorcycle bring ??

    5.6 billion / 350,000 = 16000 dollars profit on each one sold. Whew !!!

    Maybe you meant to say 5.6 Billion Gross.

    Yes, I agree, HD sure does know how to make the money. You gotta give credit where its due. You gotta factor in all the other goodies they sell also. We have a dealer here in town that is into the brand new store and several acre lot, he is open all the time it seems. I know several of the store employee's and they says its tough making it to the end of each month. The other store they had was a nice one, good show room, seperate shop, seperate storage sheds but HD told them to get a modern looking store.

    Our local Honda shop sucks, They are for small dirt bikes in the area. The next honda is 38 miles in Durango, Colorado and they are good guys.

    I sold my HD stock when it was at 53 a year or so back. Made a few bucks but I checked today and its up a bit. It is 54.64 today, not a bad increase since I sold LOL...

    I guess I am stuck with my old GW... What a POS !!!

    pronomian

    If we compare apples to apples, then we have to compare Goldwings with Ultras, not the cruisers. Big difference. Hondas build cruisers, VTX's Shadows etc. They just don't sell as many of them as HD does. At least I consider my Wing as a Touring bike, not a Cruiser bike. and maybe even a little Touring/Sport bike LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic_chariot
    one word.. HARLEY.. last quarter they made 1.6 BILLION. profit...... 5.6 BILLION profit last year.. don't care what anyone says.. they darn sure must be doing something right.... !!!
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    I wonder how much of that Harley profit is actually from the sales of motorcycles? I would think the big money comes from parts, accessories, motorclothes, etc. The service dept should be a big money maker for the dealers, along with the prementioned stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic_chariot
    one word.. HARLEY.. last quarter they made 1.6 BILLION. profit...... 5.6 BILLION profit last year.. don't care what anyone says.. they darn sure must be doing something right.... !!!

    cosmic
    Got to agree with you...they appeal to the Harley culture buyer. I stopped in my local HD dealer at Christmas to pick up a small gift for a friend and was blown away by everything in there. You could buy things from baby clothes with HD logos to shot glasses. Our local dealer pushes as much in clothes as he does in chrome. He also has a nice place for a snack and sponsors rides on a regular basis. Marketing at it's best! They give people a place to come to, a place to congregate and chat, a place that is clean and comfortable. When is the last time you went to a Honda dealer that had picnic tables and shelter with 25-30 people hanging around just enjoying each other's company? Even in the winter months the HD parking lot is full on weekends because this local dealer sponsors on-going events that produce buying once the public walks in. It's fun, has food, and forms relationships. The basics of human relations is in place at HD and doing well.

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    Tom
    The figures I saw were Market share in 2005, Honda was number 1 with 25% and HD right behind with 24.7%, or something like that. I think it was 2004 or 2003 that HD beat big red for the number 1 spot. Yamaha has been number 3 for the last several years with about 10-12% market share.
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    Looking at the overall picture, Honda wins on many levels.

    I dont know the split, but Honda and Toyota have about $225 BILLION market capitalization. I heard that in reference to a comment that Ford and GM have a market capitalization of about $25 billion.

    Keeping all emotion and preference out of the mix, Honda could chew Harley up and spit them out.

    Harley is a niche company serving a niche market. They do that very well. But let's keep it in perspective.
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    hd sells more bikes .go to sturgus ther are 250,000 to 500.000people there .90 percent of them are on harleys. honda sells generators atv and bikes . i think it helps keep them ahead of the other mfg.
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    Not really surprised.. On the other hand I would be curious on stats of salvage yards. A friend of mine needed some parts for his 1400 intruder and to save some cash we searched a couple of salvage yards. Found a never ending supply of metric parts.... didnt find any HD's. Regardless of condition they dont seem to sit long. As well as old triumph and BSA bikes, frames/ etc.... didnt see any.
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    Harley makes a profit on the bikes, but the big profit maker is the accessories and licensed products, they make an absolute killing on that stuff.

    The best selling Harley is: XLTS Xtra Large T Shirt

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    Default LOL Give me a brake

    Got 2 Harleys 1 wing bet u honda sells more pocket rockets the harley sells over ever model! I live in a miltary town with a dealer of each when was the last time u saw a harley go down and the guy didnt fix vs the jarhead that drops his totals it then goes get another one.Where harley makes the money on acces. hehe chrome is good LOL.So as far as bike sales honda i think takes it overall money who know harley got that awesome family and acces thing going Got both ride both just been riding the wing lately.

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    The Harley Corporation is a marketing genius.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingman26
    Harley makes a profit on the bikes, but the big profit maker is the accessories and licensed products, they make an absolute killing on that stuff.

    The best selling Harley is: XLTS Xtra Large T Shirt

    Its all money in Harleys pockets.. t-shirts or what ever.... they do VERY
    well...

    cosmic
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    And I forgot to mention... Harley stores are well set up... its a nice place to visit & shop... and you don't trip over string trimmers, lawn mowers
    or generators...

    Sure would be nice if Honda would do something similar......

    cosmic
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    Quote Originally Posted by pronomian
    I think if you wanted to compare apples with apples, you'd have to ask who sells more cruisers, not bikes in general.

    Mike
    Why? Isn't the Goldwing a motorcycle? It is not Hondas fault that Harley can't build anything except 20 different versions of the same cruiser.
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    Tom, glad to see that someone agrees with me.

    I started that conversation about a week ago in response to a comment that was made inferring that Harley outsells Honda, so I posted the real statistics. It didn't go over too well.

    First of all, techinically, Honda is not the worlds largest motorcycle manufacturer if you include scooters. There are a few Chinese companies that are larger than Honda in worldwide market share.

    The numbers that Tom posted do include watercraft and ATV's, because they are part of Honda's motorcycle division. If you exclude those, Honda still sells over 6 million motorcycles per year, which is quite impressive.

    It is interesting to note the statistic about Honda's US production by itself. Honda doesn't manufacture any scooters in the US, yet their production of motorcycles in the US alone still exceeds Harleys entire worldwide production. That is important from the standpoint that it points out there are more US workers building Honda motorcycles than there are US workers building Harleys. They are becoming as much an American company as Harley.

    Throughout that entire discussion, I was not attempting to bash Harley. I was just quoting facts, not opinion. Harley is an American company, and since I am also an American, I hope they continue to do well and wish them no ill will. That being said, I still won't own one of their products until they build something other than a cruiser that is affordable, using 21st century technology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic_chariot
    one word.. HARLEY.. last quarter they made 1.6 BILLION. profit...... 5.6 BILLION profit last year.. don't care what anyone says.. they darn sure must be doing something right.... !!!
    quote]
    Check again. How about $209 MILLION profit
    Larry
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM
    Quote Originally Posted by pronomian
    I think if you wanted to compare apples with apples, you'd have to ask who sells more cruisers, not bikes in general.

    Mike
    Why? Isn't the Goldwing a motorcycle? It is not Hondas fault that Harley can't build anything except 20 different versions of the same cruiser.
    Because Harley doesn't sell crotch rockets (unless you count buell as one) from various sizes, and off road bikes, 50cc and up. I would be interested in seeing what the majority of bikes sold by hond were, cruisers or rockets.

    Boss Hoss has a very small market share, compared to Honda it is nothing, however, I bet boss hoss is the number one selling V-8 motorcyle, and there are other brands of V-8s,

    Mike
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    It all depends Mike. Example: Harley markets the Electra-Glide as a touring bike, a competitor to the Wing, but when it comes time to calculate market share, they include the Glide in the numbers and exclude the Goldwing.

    All four of the major Japanese manufacturers build smaller cruisers, like 850, 800, 750, 700, 650 cc etc, which are actually their largest sellers. So yes, if you want to exclude all of the other manufacturers biggest selling bikes in the cruiser category by creating a "large" "cruiser only" category, while at the same time including everything that Harley builds, including the little Sportster, their largest selling bike, which is hardly large by any stretch of the imagination, then yes, I guess you're right. Harley does outsell everyone else.

    Categories like that are great for bragging rights, but it is the same as saying Boss Hoss outsells Honda because they build more motocycles than Honda does in the V8 category. Whether you are an investor or a motorcycle enthusiast, that statement doesn't have much teeth in it, does it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic_chariot
    one word.. HARLEY.. last quarter they made 1.6 BILLION. profit...... 5.6 BILLION profit last year.. don't care what anyone says.. they darn sure must be doing something right.... !!!

    cosmic
    Yes, MARKETING It would be easy to make BIG proffits when you can sell 1940's technology at greatly inflated prices in todays market place. SO, WHAT DO THEY DO WELL? "MARKETING" Their product is not up to par dollar for dollar with any of their competitors.
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    I believe that I read that only 1/3 of their profit was from the sale of bikes , the other 2/3 comes from parts, accesories. The clothing line draws the most., thats why all their dealers are now boutiques, now they are making some of their dealerships riding destination with restuaraunts and hotels. this is really a marketing genuis organization.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzFlyer
    I wonder how much of that Harley profit is actually from the sales of motorcycles? I would think the big money comes from parts, accessories, motorclothes, etc. The service dept should be a big money maker for the dealers, along with the prementioned stuff.
    yep..... what are the percentage break outs for licensed Harley products besides the bikes?

    there are plenty of licensed Harley do-dads for sale in the shops
    Tony....

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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM
    All four of the major Japanese manufacturers build smaller cruisers, like 850, 800, 750, 700, 650 cc etc, which are actually their largest sellers. So yes, if you want to exclude all of the other manufacturers biggest selling bikes in the cruiser category by creating a "large" "cruiser only" category, while at the same time including everything that Harley builds, including the little Sportster, their largest selling bike, which is hardly large by any stretch of the imagination, then yes, I guess you're right. Harley does outsell everyone else.
    The size cruisers that honda makes should be compared with the same size cruisers harley makes. Lump all in from the sportster's 883 to the larger and exclude the touring. Comare those with all honda makes from 800 up. I would think that honda would still have an edge since their bikes are cheaper than the harleys. Then the full tourers, still, would think that honda would have an edge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM
    Categories like that are great for bragging rights, but it is the same as saying Boss Hoss outsells Honda because they build more motocycles than Honda does in the V8 category. Whether you are an investor or a motorcycle enthusiast, that statement doesn't have much teeth in it, does it?
    It's apples and oranges, that is why it doesn't have much teeth. The corporation of Honda does in fact sell more motorcycles than the corporation of harley. That is because honda has more of a diverse selection appealing to the large range of enthusiasts while harley basically has one, the cruiser type, even for their baggers. One can really want a cruiser but "settle" for the glide since they can get the same "feel." If ones wants a honda cruiser he will not get a GW, if one wants the "feel" of a crotch rocket, but due to circumstances will not get one, he may get a GW and still have that "feel."

    Mike
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    pronomian... The last thing I read stated H-D owned 60% of the over 600cc market in the states.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red
    pronomian... The last thing I read stated H-D owned 60% of the over 600cc market in the states.
    600-800cc market? Hmmmmmmm, somehow I doubt it, but I don't do numbers.

    Mike
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    Red

    How much of the 650 market does Harley have ??
    How much of the 800 market does Harley have ??

    How much of the 1500 market does Harley have ??
    How much of the 1800 market does Harley have ??
    How much of the 2000+ market does Harley have ??

    How much of the 4 cyl market does Harley have ?
    How much of the 3 cyl market does Harley have ?
    How much of the 5 cyl market does Harley have
    How much of the 6 cyl market does Harley have
    How much of the 8 cyl market does Harley have

    Oh, how much of the 1 cyl market does Harley have ?

    The curious wants to know.

    They have one small niche in the motorcycle market. Cruisers, There are more non-cruisers built in the world than cruisers alone.

    I am not knocking HD at all, I have owned them for many years. I just get tired of hearing they are number one in all aspects of motorcycling which just is NOT true. They are number one in Cruiser style bikes. They don't even compete in off road bikes, or dual sport bikes, or fast bikes(exception for Vrod and Buell which are on the tail end of fast bikes) How many HD have you seen compete in a Trials Event ??

    Go buy a HD that your 5 year old grandson can train on.

    HD is one fine merchandiser, can not be beat in that area. They can sell the heck out of 3 dollar T-shirts for ten bucks. Pretty good. And, they are a American made company, I went in the new HD store in Farmington, NM and looked all around. I only found one thing that said "Made in America", it was a black stetson Hat with a Harley band on it. Everything else was off shore. Even the leather was off shore. You see underware marked up with HD on them, You see Jeans marked up with HD logo on them. You see all kinds of trinkets, HD stamped and price goes up. Yes, they are a great merchandising company , one of the BEST in the world.

    Any time you put dimensions and limits on something during a comparsion, then you no longer are comparing apples and apples.

    We all are riding motorcycles. Therefor to be fair, compare sales of motorcycles, all motorcycles should be considered. A Goldwing sure does not fall in the Cruiser catagory, Nor does a Fat Boy fall in the Touring catagory. Although I can cruise on a Wing, and I can tour on a Fat Boy.

    If it is a apple to apple thing, The numbers change.
    OK, lets see, Hmmmm, temp up to 31 degs, guess I will go cruise around on my touring Goldwing.

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