Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection
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    Seasoned Member wd9dan's Avatar
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    Default Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    OK. Here's the thing. I am NOT a speed-demon, so please do not lecture unless you absolutely cannot stop yourself.

    I am considering some out-of-state trips on the new Wing, and I am considering a radar detector. I am inclined towards the escort 9500i. HOWEVER, iam curoius about the newer laser detection.

    NOT how it works, that I pretty much comprehend. Nor, am I interested in Jamming. What I am curious about is this:
    What percentage of speed dection does it comprise? How fast is it being adopted across the country? I have googled just a tad, but did not see this type of info.

    What I'm trying to determine is NOT whether or not I will get stopped (I REALLY don't speed that much) but how long a new dectector will be viable (for plain old radar in all the various bands).

    While I don't zip along at 75 or 80 MPH, I do sometimes pass a car, or two or 3 that are in the right lane, going a bit slower than me. We are all exceeding the posted limit, but not by a huge amount. However, when I pass, I believe in getting it the heck over with. I don't like riding down the road with a car right beside me for any period of time. I want to be either well back, or ahead enough that I am seen.

    So, when I pass, there are times when I am in the left, accelerating, feeling vulnerable, and will soon merge right and slow back down. But, for those moments, it would be nice to have some warning if there's somebody ahead "Lighting Up" cars as they go by. I know it's not fool-proof. But it sure could improve the odds for this manuever, and for that alone, I like the idea. The same applies on my commute to work, which is over 40 miles. Car or Bike, I don't like to take "minutes" to "ease by" somebody. But, if I am going to shell out some $$$, then I am curious about how fast the newer detection technologies are being adopted, and how soon the gizmo will be half-way (or more ) useless.

    So, if anybody can point me to a web-site that talks about the adoption and/or prevalence of Lidar, and newer technolgies, I would like to read it. I figure somebody out there is in the know about these things, and all I need is a link or two.

    Thanks, (This Forum is WONDERFUL in many ways...! Very active and very useful...!)
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    Veteran Member wingwing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Quote Originally Posted by wd9dan
    What I am curious about is this:
    What percentage of speed dection does it comprise?
    I've had my 9500i on the bike for about 14,000 miles now.
    I think it's one of the best accessories I own.

    Thousands (maybe ten's of thousands?) of radar alerts in the past year riding throughout the SE of the USA.

    lots of X band alerts (99% false alerts)
    lots of K band alerts (75% false alerts)
    many Ka band alerts (95% the "real" thing)

    less than 5 total (five) laser alerts during that whole time.
    (not five percent, less than FIVE total lasar "hits")
    ... bottom line: not used much in the SouthEast U.S.

    Dennis
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    Contributing Member Medic2012's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Laser is a thin beam of light, usually aimed at a car's license plate or other "reflective" surface. The narrowness of the beam makes it easier for the LEO to single out/sight in a vehicle, but it also precludes the detection of the threat. Because the sensor is looking optically and there is little bleedover, conventional understanding is that "if you hear a laser alert, it's already too late because YOU were the target". You will rarely, if ever, get an alert when someone else (even directly in front or beside you) gets hit.

    That being said, all my laser alerts have always been false -- Lexus Navigation screens will set it off if too close...

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    Seasoned Member gcgst1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    I have owned the escort 8500 for 3.5 years and have had Laser detected exactly once here in NC. On that occasion I saw the County Mountie standing outside of his patrol car with another observer like they were experimenting with this new toy. Maybe it was on loan to the sheriff's office or maybe the escort doesn't detect laser very well.
    '06 Comfort Package

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    Seasoned Member eagle42101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    I believe that if a lazer tags you, you have been had. It is so narrow that very few "detectors" will help any. I made a radar "tester" out of an old in house burglar alarm. It consists of a 10 gHz oscillator that is powered by a 9 volt battery. I carry it on long trips and have a ball "testing" folks radar detectors for them on the interstate as they move along. Im of the belief that most warnings are from external sources, such as my home made tester, and things other than police radar.
    From what you said about how you drive, youre not gonna get a ticket for speeding. I believe that the police look for people doing dumb stuff like weaving in and out of lanes, blantent speeding and agressive driving. In a few states, radar detectors are illegal.


    Bob H
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    Seasoned Member pshivers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    I run the Escort Passport 8500 X50 (Blue).

    In California the CHP (California Highway Patrol) is increasing is usage of LIDAR as are many city Police departments.

    LIDAR can only be used from a stationary position, not while in a moving vehicle. As stated earlier if your laser detector goes off while you are out riding and you are speeding , you have already received a ticket, you just need to pull over so the nice Officer can hand it to you!

    I still find some comfort in the laser alarm going off and I'm not speeding just knowing That I was just zapped. While riding in a group I may jump on the HAM or CB radio and send out a "Heads Up". My only speeding ticket in recent history was on my Wing carving some canyon roads and really enjoying myself when the friendly CHP standing at the side of the road waves me over to receive my "Having way too much fun" ticket. The laser detector never went off for that one... laser hits are still pretty rare, but there are certain areas around here that use them quite bit. I have yet to receive a Laser Alert that I know saved me a ticket. The number of laser Alerts I have received are probably fewer than 5 in the last 2-3 years and i was not exceeding the posted speed limit enough to warrant a ticket. It does however reinforce in my Mind the areas where Laser Speed Enforcement is occurring and perhaps i should pay even closer attention to my driving habits.

    If your are buying radar/laser detector based solely on its "Laser" capabilities, then no it is not worth it. BUT, A RD like the 8500 or 9500 from Escort is worth the price of admission because of its superior performance in all bands that it works on. With the 9500 and its GPS driven false alert eliminator capability is a really nice feature.

    I'm personally thinking of turning my "X" band detection off all together on my 8500. 100% false alerts on X-band as near as I can tell. Ka-Band on the other hand is nearly 100% accurate on true alerts.

    http://www.radarbusters.com/ is great website to read through for all question/answers that are Radar/Laser related

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle42101
    In a few states, radar detectors are illegal.


    Bob H
    The "Few" states being Virginia and Washington D.C.

    They are not legal at all for commercial truck drivers to use.
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Don't know about any website showing adoption rates for LIDAR.

    But when we got our detector (STi Driver) and used it on our first trip (car) we had two Laser hits. First one in NY and the second one in St. Louis. Since then we haven't had any encounters. Just two false alarms.

    As stated before. There is no warning period. When it goes off you have been clocked by the officer and only get visual and vocal confirmation by the detector.

    Since it only can be used in a stopped vehicle there are not that many in use today. However rest assured that everyone is working hard to eliminate that "fault". Once resolved it's going to be the "standard" for all police speed enforcement.

    Reiner
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    Seasoned Member LD_RIDER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Quote Originally Posted by wd9dan
    What I am curious about is this:
    What percentage of speed dection does it comprise? How fast is it being adopted across the country? I have googled just a tad, but did not see this type of info.
    I spend a lot of time running up and down the Eastern seaboard all the way to Flori duh and out to say, Idaho, Montana, the Dakotas...LIDAR is a non-issue. I think the <has to be stationary> thing pretty much kills it as LEOs like to be moving. Once he parks and is spotted, the word gets out on his location and he is done.

    In small towns it may be different, but I spend my time on the interstates...BTW, why not consider jamming? Expensive but supposed to be da bomb for stealth ninja running...
    ​Rob in Maine
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Quote Originally Posted by reinerka
    .....

    Since it only can be used in a stopped vehicle there are not that many in use today. However rest assured that everyone is working hard to eliminate that "fault". Once resolved it's going to be the "standard" for all police speed enforcement.

    Reiner
    I doubt that LiDAR will have a moving mode anytime soon, if ever. The major advangtage to LiDAR is also the major feature limiting its usefullness in a moving mode. It has to be aimed at the vehicle you want to clock. Not very easy or safe to do while also driving.

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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Radar detectors have attempted to be made illegal in DC, Virginia, and Connecticut I think. Their legislatures are trying to say that a passive radio receiver can be illegal to own. If our esteemed Supremes would *ever* get off their butts and rule in this, I'm sure the nazi states will be forced to accept reality.
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    Seasoned Member LD_RIDER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Quote Originally Posted by David M.
    Radar detectors have attempted to be made illegal in DC, Virginia, and Connecticut I think.
    They WERE illegal in Connecticut...No longer the case..Still illegal in Virginia, not sure about DC..Illegal in many providences in Canada also...
    ​Rob in Maine
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    The statement "when the lazer mode goes off .. you already have a ticket" I think is untrue.... I have a Escort 8500 mounted on my GL1800
    when ever I ride by New Orleans International Airport my detector always goes off - and the detector states - "lazer" ... I think its something at the airport that sets it off.. not a leo checking speed...

    cosmic
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    HSV airport has the same thing. It's a gadget that helps pilots land.
    Remember when America had freedoms and due process of law? Born Free. Legislated to Death.
    What humankind needs is a manned mission to Mars!

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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard
    Quote Originally Posted by reinerka
    .....

    Since it only can be used in a stopped vehicle there are not that many in use today. However rest assured that everyone is working hard to eliminate that "fault". Once resolved it's going to be the "standard" for all police speed enforcement.

    Reiner
    I doubt that LiDAR will have a moving mode anytime soon, if ever. The major advangtage to LiDAR is also the major feature limiting its usefullness in a moving mode. It has to be aimed at the vehicle you want to clock. Not very easy or safe to do while also driving.
    There is a company in Europe that has a laser scanning device that is used for speed and red-light violations. They are working on a system that performs this task while moving. I've been working with Laser scanners and with a bit more (albeit complex) software they can be made to work in a moving mode (they can assess their own speed as well as the speed of multiple moving targets).

    While this isn't LiDAR, it uses the same concept (Laser). It rotates and scans a certain area creating a 3D image. They can then isolate multiple vehicles by image comparison and know the speed. This way they can monitor multiple lanes and direction at the same time. Getting it to understand its own movement is not far off and perfectly feasable.

    Reiner
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Quote Originally Posted by wd9dan
    OK. Here's the thing....
    Why not just invest in a jamming device???
    8th & I - '73-'75

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    Seasoned Member Tony in AZ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    My Escort 8500 picked up a laser(my first) in Colorado 2 yrs ago.. I was in a road construction zone , 30 mph limit. My 2610 GPS indicated 29 mph... no performance report issued to me.

    My escort units in each vehicle do set off on laser when I am near the Sky Harbor airport in Phoenix AZ


    Tony....

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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Quote Originally Posted by DT
    Quote Originally Posted by wd9dan
    OK. Here's the thing....
    Why not just invest in a jamming device???
    They are illegal in most West Coast states (CA, UT, etc). Plus they don't block it out completely, just give you a couple of hundred feet of additional reaction time as many tests have shown.

    Reiner
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Quote Originally Posted by reinerka
    ...They are illegal in most...
    I've never understood why people make that kind of statement...murder, robbery, and evening running red lights are illegal too but that was not the question in the original post.
    8th & I - '73-'75

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    Seasoned Member Buzz Lightyear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Quote Originally Posted by DT
    Quote Originally Posted by reinerka
    ...They are illegal in most...
    I've never understood why people make that kind of statement...
    Essentially, because it's true. Reinerka was just responding to your statement: "why not just invest in a jamming device". The question in the original post had nothing to do with jamming devices, as far as I can tell.
    Santa Cruz Beach Boy
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    having spent a few years doing electronic warfare in the services, jamming devices are so much fun

    Nigel
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Most departments still depend on RADAR for the majority of speed detection (FEDS usually pay for it with grants). When I worked RADAR details, we could send a signal, lock on, and "shut" the RADAR down (no signal sent) before your detector would ever go off. Most detectors have short delay to prevent false signals when going under an overpass, etc. and the method we used replicates doing that. Takes practice, but can be done. I use to have a lot of fun doing "strange things with RADAR and the detectors. Those people who tried to fool me and hide them in tissue boxes, under the dash etc. would ALWAYS get a ticket. Same for those who said they used it for SAFETY purposes. Those that were up front and admitted they got caught MAY get a pass. Remember, the officer has "the power of the pen" and in MOST circumstances doesn't HAVE to write you a ticket.

    LIDAR beams are very narrow and if your detector goes off, it's generally too late. If you apply the brakes and he/she sees your brake lights, especially at night, the officer knows you have a detector and are fair game.

    To each his own, I would spend my money elsewhere...........ride safe!!!
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    POP can't fool even the cheapest detecters anymore.
    To sum up what I have learned from reading many of these posts and working in Law Inforcemant. All citizens are equal, some are more equal than others. Please correct me if I am wrong but donít issue citations for minor infrations to;
    other officers or their family members (professional courtesy),Nurse or Doctors (may need one some day), Judges (goes without saying), City Attorney, council member, city hall employee, kids teacher, etc.

    So, to surmises what is being said, always cite anyone who usurps your power by legally using a radar detector. Iíve had the pleasure of meeting a few socialist cops in my day who believe in unarmed peasants. They always look for any other nickel and dime reason to issue additional cites to anyone they pull over with a CHL. Where, I ask does it end?
    In Texas if you are pulled over for speeding, the average Joe has a better chase of winning the lottery than ďniceingĒ his way out of a ticket. I Know, I've become very skewed in my old age.

    Wd9dan
    You own a GoldWing because you know you get what you paid for. Consider the PASSPORT 9500 ci. Itís the ultimate custom-installed radar and laser defense system with laser "shifting" technology. Itís 1500 but when I think about all the farkles we buy a clean looking permanent radar detector installation would sure look cool.

  24. #23
    Seasoned Member vintagemxr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Laser (Lidar) speed detection

    Just some FWIW info:

    4/30/2008 Ohio Court Tosses Laser Speed Gun Readings
    Ohio appeals court throws out unproven lidar speed gun evidence.

    (tossed out on a technicality) Of more interest is the last paragraph of the article:

    "The British media has been scathing in its treatment of the inaccuracy of the LTI 20-20 speed gun. The basic operation problem is that hand held laser speed guns must take two separate measurements of distance to generate a speed estimate. If, while taking a speed reading, an officer's hand twitches slightly, the laser beam can "slip" from one portion of a vehicle to another. The extra distance measured in the second reading is then added to the calculation that determines the speed readout. For example, if the speed gun's aim point slips from the windshield to the grill, the speed reading will read 8 MPH too high. London's Daily Mail newspaper, the BBC, and ITV network have each run stories exposing fundamental flaws in the way lidar guns estimate speed."

    http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/23/2348.asp

    http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/07/713.asp

    http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/07/749.asp

    http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/06/649.asp

    I have not had a ticket since 1984 (knock on wood) so it's not like I have an ax to grind over some recent ticket. Lawful enforcement of the laws is appropriate. If I get caught speeding and I was really speeding or being careless, so be it.

    Doug

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