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    Default Techron works. I'm now a believer

    I don't normally put additives in my gas tank or crankcase. Growing up in an era of worthless additives like STP has left me a bit jaded about such products, and I have always gotten along just fine without them thank you.

    As some of you know, my bike has pinged badly off and on for a few years now. I would run a tank of premium, do some wide open throttle, and generally ride aggressively on that tank, and the pinging would go away for about 3 or 4 tanks. And the bike had much more power with premium because the ECM wasn't sensing pinging and excessively retarding the timing.

    On a recent trip into the Pennsylvania mountains, things got real bad. I had to stop at an ancient gas station in the middle of the mountains that was directly out of a scene from the movie Deliverance, complete with the mumbling hillbilly standing at fuel pumps that still had old style mechanical readouts and no credit card reader.

    I am convinced that I got a bad tank of gas, but the pinging was really bad. I couldn't even maintain speed up a steep hill without it pinging terribly, even if I took the rpms up to 4500.

    I knew that I had carbon building up in my combustion chamber, and possibly also had injectors that weren't firing correctly, but it was at this point that I decided it was time to try some fuel additive before I destroyed my engine.

    After the guy at the local auto parts store told me that both the Techron and SeaFoam were popular, but that the GM dealerships swore by the Techron, I decided to try some. I added half a bottle to a fill up, and within 100 miles, the pinging was almost completely gone. The stuff really did work, and it verified my suspicion about carbon buildup or fuel system varnish.

    After thinking about this for awhile, I may add this to my normal maintenance routine on the Wing based simply on a theory.

    90% of my riding is commuting and running errands around town, which means that most of my riding is rather sedate. When you have an engine with this much torque compared to the weight it is pulling, it never really gets stressed in that kind of riding, and carbon never gets a chance to be burned off. Based on that theory, I am going to start using the Techron at least once a month on the bike.

    I do still have a very slight ping going up steep hills if I really get on it, so there may still be some buildup that needs to be removed. Maybe I will try some SeaFoam on the next tank to see if it takes care of the rest of the problem.

    For what it's worth, I still think that Honda was a bit too optimistic in recommending 87 octane for this bike. There are a lot of people that complain about pinging, and my 02 has had slight pinging since it was new. So 89 octane may also become part of my regular routine. An extra 50 cents a tank won't kill me, especially if the bike runs better on it.

    Hope this helps someone.
    Last edited by LarryM; 10-31-2009 at 08:11 AM.
    Larry
    2002 Illusion Blue GL1800

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    Larry, I too am a believer in Techron. If I suspected serious build-up, I would run 3, maybe 4 tanks of gas w/ Techron before I spaced it out to like once every 6 months. BTW, Richard Petty (Mr. STP) is coming to get you.

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    Seasoned Member Grampawinger's Avatar
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    Larry, before you go bouncing around trying different products. LOL

    Chevron, a major oil company, has developed Techron. Here is a link to their website that compares it's product with it's leading competitor.

    http://www.chevron.com/products/ourf...tives/tcp.aspx

    Gleen whatever........judge........etc.

    I add the Techron once a year to suck up condensed water. Because of the possible octane dilution I fill up with 89 octane for that tank full.

    I also do not buy gasoline from Costco, Sams Club, Meijers, or Walmart, etc. because of the ethanol content.

    Ps: I will not put either Techron or Seafoam in my crankcase.

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    Veteran Member wingwing's Avatar
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    Larry,
    I try to use Chevron and Texaco.
    I thought both have Techron additive in the fuel
    ...is that the same stuff you added?

    Dennis
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    Default Lowest Grade Fuel

    I use regular fuel every time I fill. (lowest grade) Have not heard any pinging yet. We ride 2 up all the time, not to aggressive. With only 6000 miles I average 44.86 MPG using regular fuel. No additives used.
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    Seasoned Member Wingleader09's Avatar
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    Here is another thing that may help prevent carbon buildup in your engine if a good portion of your driving is around town.

    I was told by a very savy Goldwing mechanic that we should shift gears at around 3,000 RPM and not 2,000 as a lot of Wingers tend to do. He said you'd be amazed that the extra 1000 RPM would make that much difference in preventing carbon deposits, but it will.


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    Seasoned Member JohnACman's Avatar
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    I've used Techron since the bike was new and only try to use Chevron or Texico gas when possible. I put 3 oz in a tank every 4 months or so. No pinging.
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    Seasoned Member Grampawinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingleader09 View Post
    Here is another thing that may help prevent carbon buildup in your engine if a good portion of your driving is around town.

    I was told by a very savy Goldwing mechanic that we should shift gears at around 3,000 RPM and not 2,000 as a lot of Wingers tend to do. He said you'd be amazed that the extra 1000 RPM would make that much difference in preventing carbon deposits, but it will.

    I agree. Another benefit of revving over 3k, if the speed limit allows, is that the transmission does not clunk and you get much smoother shifting.
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    Seasoned Member tv5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingleader09 View Post
    Here is another thing that may help prevent carbon buildup in your engine if a good portion of your driving is around town.

    I was told by a very savy Goldwing mechanic that we should shift gears at around 3,000 RPM and not 2,000 as a lot of Wingers tend to do. He said you'd be amazed that the extra 1000 RPM would make that much difference in preventing carbon deposits, but it will.
    Very true, keep your revs up a bit in those riding conditions and never lug a motor against a pull like riding uphill.
    Hey, I gotta fever, and there's only 1 cure... More cowbell!!!

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    We don't have Chevron's or Texaco's in the Midwest. They left this area over 30 years ago. I haven't seen one anywhere in years.

    I normally seek out Shell or Sunoco, but I do also give my business to the big Mini-Mart chains like Sheetz and Speedway that have a lot of traffic and modern pumps. I don't go to Walmart or Sam's.
    Larry
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    I'm not convinced about the rpm thing, despite the fact that the logic is hard to argue with. And I don't have a clunky transmission. It is silky smooth. So that is not an issue.

    The RPM's you run at are dependent on the design of the engine. Engines that are designed to run at 8000 rpm with a redline of 15000 aren't any less likely to develop deposits than an engine with a much lower operating range.

    I found a perplexing problem with loose rocks of carbon in my mufflers this spring. I don't shift below 3000, but I did have a habit of riding in 5th gear on level, straight roads at 40 to 45 mph. When accelerating, I never lug the motor. I always select the right gear for the conditions.

    I decided to increase my shift points and only use fifth gear at speeds of 55 or higher, and did that all summer. If anything, the pinging got exponentially worse. That is why I think this is a load issue more than an rpm issue. The load on the engine isn't any higher at 3000 than it is at 2000. The engine simply wasn't getting worked hard enough, regarless of what rpm I used.

    I am not about to start doing my best Nicky Hayden impression on a regular basis, so the solution has to come from elsewhere, and Techron might be the answer.

    It isn't even a certainty that carbon was the issue, although common sense says that it was probably at least partially to blame. I may have been running an engine that was leaned out due to partially clogged injectors. Regardless of the cause, my point is only that the Techron did the trick in solving the problem. It is not snake oil.
    Last edited by LarryM; 10-31-2009 at 09:40 AM.
    Larry
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    Legend in His Own Mind Teaser 1's Avatar
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    Well mines never been a pinger. I don't baby it or do a lot of lugging though. I only use 87 octane and have never had any issues. Maybe they changed the timing or knock sensors on 06 and after bikes. I do like Chevron fuel also and use it a lot.
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    Seasoned Member Pigeon Roost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravelinLite View Post
    Larry, I too am a believer in Techron. If I suspected serious build-up, I would run 3, maybe 4 tanks of gas w/ Techron before I spaced it out to like once every 6 months. BTW, Richard Petty (Mr. STP) is coming to get you.
    Mr STP was Andy Granatelli ( I bet I butchered his name), but Petty di ddrive the Granatelli STP car. Instead of "Scientifically Treated Petrolium", we used to call it "Stop To Push".

    prs
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    Seasoned Member Grampawinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
    I'm not convinced about the rpm thing, despite the fact that the logic is hard to argue with. And I don't have a clunky transmission. It is silky smooth. So that is not an issue.

    The RPM's you run at are dependent on the design of the engine. Engines that are designed to run at 8000 rpm with a redline of 15000 aren't any less likely to develop deposits than an engine with a much lower operating range.

    I found a perplexing problem with loose rocks of carbon in my mufflers this spring. I don't shift below 3000, but I did have a habit of riding in 5th gear on level, straight roads at 40 to 45 mph. When accelerating, I never lug the motor. I always select the right gear for the conditions.

    I decided to increase my shift points and only use fifth gear at speeds of 55 or higher, and did that all summer. If anything, the pinging got exponentially worse. That is why I think this is a load issue more than an rpm issue. The load on the engine isn't any higher at 3000 than it is at 2000. The engine simply wasn't getting worked hard enough, regarless of what rpm I used.

    I am not about to start doing my best Nicky Hayden impression on a regular basis, so the solution has to come from elsewhere, and Techron might be the answer.

    It isn't even a certainty that carbon was the issue, although common sense says that it was probably at least partially to blame. I may have been running an engine that was leaned out due to partially clogged injectors. Regardless of the cause, my point is only that the Techron did the trick in solving the problem. It is not snake oil.

    How about the spark plugs. Do they have carbon particles on them that could glow and cause pre ignition?

    Running with plugs that are too hot can sometimes cause pre ignition.
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    Seasoned Member John Ulrich's Avatar
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    Techron's secret is the PEA chemical. Their Pro-Gard additive has been promoted in store flyers recently but that does not have the PEA chemical in it.

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    Your situation isn't all that rare. For some reason be it timing, extra compression, altitude or lack of, a few really do work best on mid grade. No rhyme or reason for it in a lot of cases. Try out the mid or high grade. If you really feel difference it could be the answer.
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    There ARE Chevron and Texico stations in the "Mid West"; just not all of the Mid West. Techroline evidently does work well as an additive and it also works well if you use it as the solvent when manualy cleaning carbs and other such parts. I use it abut this time every year about 1/3 of the container split among my three bikes. I run that through about one tank of fuel ahead the next oil change so that any blow by is eliminated from the crank case.

    I've gotten several tank loads of pizz poo fuel. The worse was at Anstead, WV where the fuel was heavily contaminated with diesel, another outside of Bluefield, WV and another down in North Carolina close to Little Switzerland. Those last two times my son's VTX actually stalled-out a few times and the Wing ran very poorly; but knocking was never an issue noticed. My Wing has only knocked the few times I screwed-up and pulled out in 4th or 5th . I always use the lowest octane rating available. But some Wings are reported to be chronic knockers and pingers -- maybe as simple as poorly trimmed head gaskets or other such hot spots in the head.

    I have some equipment around the property that we abuse pretty badly. One diesel tractor had been realy losing power and making lots of fluffly carbon. We discovered another additive product that really works; Lucus fuel and oil treatment. We added the specified dose to the next fill of the fuel (same fuel supply we had been using, and withing two hours of operation that little tractor was running like new again (its a 1982 Deere).

    prs
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    Seasoned Member Pigeon Roost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXREALTOR View Post
    Your situation isn't all that rare. For some reason be it timing, extra compression, altitude or lack of, a few really do work best on mid grade. No rhyme or reason for it in a lot of cases. Try out the mid or high grade. If you really feel difference it could be the answer.
    On the other hand; I've seen some motors that initially respond positively to higher octane fuel, but in the not too long of a run develope even more carbon build-up since the fuel burns cooler or less efficiently at lower compression ratios.

    prs
    Last edited by Pigeon Roost; 10-31-2009 at 12:46 PM.
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    Seasoned Member TXREALTOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon Roost View Post
    On the other hand; I've seen some motors that initialy respond positively to higher octane fuel, but in the not too long of a run develope even more carbon build-up since the fuel burns cooler or less efficiently at lower compression ratios.

    prs
    Fair enough. If you don't NEED it, it is a bad thing. However, unless I am having a manic moment, it has been stated here that it did some good for a select few. I did mention it was very few, but not unheard of.
    Although the difference the OP felt could be a short lived thing of even in his head, if there was actually power gain the enginge needed it at least at the time.
    Last edited by TXREALTOR; 10-31-2009 at 11:41 AM.
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    I know there are many engines that have never pinged. Some engines even develop a few more horsepower than others. I have seen dyno tests anywhere from 97 hp to 105. These engines are not ported, polished and blueprinted. They are all different.

    I would say don't use it if your engine doesn't need it. It would be a waste of money in my book.
    Last edited by LarryM; 10-31-2009 at 12:56 PM.
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    Seasoned Member Pigeon Roost's Avatar
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    As an aside; I had previously assumed that removing the heads to clean and polish them and eliminate the carbon build-up would be a Royal PIA. But, recently Fred Harmon indicated he had been told that its a fairly easy R&R and that he had also been told that these heads are prone to heavy carbon crusting. Still, no matter how easy the heads are accessed, it has to be easier to use the Techroline doped fuel so long as that is effective.

    TXREALTOR; your point is well taken. Its far better to up the octane at the possible risk of more carbon, than it is to drive with chronic pre-igniton knock and risk expensive engine damage.

    prs
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    Seasoned Member Rocketman911's Avatar
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    I normally fill at Chevron it's down the street, and started using Sea Foam every 5-6000 miles. Put 1/2 can in at fill, run it down till the low fuel light comes on, fill again with other 1/2 of can so far no problems.

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    Default Seafoam

    I've used Seafoam in a few cars by sucking it through the vacuum port between the brake booster and intake, or the PCV valve port on the intake. That stuff is strong- doing it like this sets off all kinds of warning lights on the dash, not to mention will put on a fabulous smoke show for 20 square yards. It never ruined an O2 sensor, nor fouled any plugs, but I did have to clear all the warning codes. Get it out on the road, floor it, watch the smoke show some more, and after a minute or so, everything is gone. I guess if one uses F.I. cleaner every X number of miles, it may never get to this. I try to use something every oil change at least, and I've never had a problem- my oil changes are 10-20k at a time though.

    Maybe try running the Seafoam at a more concentrated rate- run the tank down to the last bit, and put a good bit of Seafoam in. Flog it in neutral at home with some gas in a can handy.
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    Supporting Vendor Fred H.'s Avatar
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    Techron has been listed as an approved fuel cleaner additive in both BMW and Honda auto service manuals for several years now.

    Techron has a patent on their formula and it is one of the few that has been proven to be able to loosen and remove carbon deposits in the combustion chamber.

    I use it twice a year, spring and fall, in every vehicle I own. I also try to time it just prior to an oil change, as it does seem to cause a lot of darkening of the oil from the cleaning action.

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    Seasoned Member Tawni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred H. View Post
    Techron has been listed as an approved fuel cleaner additive in both BMW and Honda auto service manuals for several years now.

    Techron has a patent on their formula and it is one of the few that has been proven to be able to loosen and remove carbon deposits in the combustion chamber.

    I use it twice a year, spring and fall, in every vehicle I own. I also try to time it just prior to an oil change, as it does seem to cause a lot of darkening of the oil from the cleaning action.
    I do the Same Fred and Good Point I too Change oil afterwords, I also
    Run seafoam the same day however I inject it into Vacuum lines
    I do this where the neighbors wont choke on it.
    Last edited by Tawni; 10-31-2009 at 04:24 PM.

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    Learned the lesson about Techron many years ago, and it has served me well ever since.
    I won't use but 3 additives in an engine:
    Chemtool B-12 for carburated engines,
    Techron for injected engines,
    and Marvel Mystery Oil.

    I don't trust anything else. YMMV
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    Seasoned Member Tawni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank2Tank View Post
    Learned the lesson about Techron many years ago, and it has served me well ever since.
    I won't use but 3 additives in an engine:
    Chemtool B-12 for carburated engines,
    Techron for injected engines,
    and Marvel Mystery Oil.

    I don't trust anything else. YMMV
    Techron has been a industry standard. Mechanics that know , trust Techron.

    Years ago when I got into Automotive as a Diagnostic Tech for Ford is where i started, then finished up with Cadillac.

    These were the days when MEchanics were trained well.
    Our instructors Wore the white shop coats and we had to Do book work, then work on the procedure discussed in class on a live car in the classroom, then when done Take an Exam.

    The exam was a written exam, and you needed 85 %
    Then a Hands on Exam 90 % ( follow the book 100%)
    Then if electrical or diagnostic related then they Handed you a box
    with all the parts and wires and a wiring diagram where you had to wire up the whole circuit from scratch.

    Example off the cuff

    Windshield wiper system

    Wiper motor and switch, low level washer indicator, interval wiper governor,
    washer motor, Nozzels and everything, complete system.

    Needed 100 % or you fail.

    Point being this was many years ago and back then I never seen a Chevron station, and it was sort of a hidden secrete if you will amongst engineers and Technicians reguarding many failing injectors were cleaned with Techron.

    Heck even my Snap on Scanner promotes its use (stated in the help center).




    KUDOS on your Marvel Mystery Oil

    I use it ALL THE TIME NEarly Every Other Fillup or prolly Every third as a good average, sometimes I leave it at home or I run out.

    One time I put too much in my Valkyrie and when Fired it up It smoked I freaked , I had just bought the bike and thought the rings were launched, then I quickly recall I had put marvel in the tank.
    Last edited by Tawni; 10-31-2009 at 04:48 PM.

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    Like Fred H., twice a year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grampawinger View Post
    I agree. Another benefit of revving over 3k, if the speed limit allows, is that the transmission does not clunk and you get much smoother shifting.

    +1
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    Seasoned Member Cockleburr's Avatar
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    I never let my engine sit at idle because that is one of the worse things that you can do to a motor. If I start it cold I put it in gear and go, keep the rpms under 2000 and ride it easy till the temp gauge gets up to normal. If I stop to talk or some other reason for more than 30 seconds I shut it off. When an engine idles it doesn't build enough heat to completely burn all the fuel going into the combustion chambers and with the EFI when the engine temp. drops it richens the fuel mix causing more unburnt fuel in the combustion chambers and that makes for carbon build up. I also use Techron to keep the fuel system clean. 42000 miles and never a ping in mine, it's just something for you guys to think about.
    Robert Neal
    Kathy
    81 CB 750 Honda Custom (Sold) --- 84 Gl 1200 Goldwing Interstate --- 88 GL 1500 Goldwing
    06 Titanium Wing
    07 Lehman Trike kit (Second Childhood)
    Cyclemate 2000 LTD Black Trailer with a
    "HOOKED UP AND RUNNING" sign on the back.
    When you find yourself in the ditch Ezzz off on the throttle shift down two gears and GAS it.

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