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  1. #31
    Seasoned Member GoldWingrGreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
    I agree with very little of Fred's post about the Iridiums. But I guess that's the fun of being a motorcycle or car enthusiast.
    ... but true. The plug wires are very excessible if you pull the black cowl above the lower front cowl the coils are right there. Just an FYI, the plugs fire twice for emmision reasons, and the wires can purchase seperatly and last a long time ... they are not part of the coil. If they go bad, the bike will run poorly and gas milage drops significatly; therefore, most high milage Wings are not running around with "leaking" or arching plug wires.
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  3. #32
    Supporting Vendor Fred H.'s Avatar
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    I stand corrected, you can indeed order the coil wires themselves. For some reason I thought I remembered they were molded into the coil on this bike.

    Though I don't think many folks ever replace them or pay much attention to them. It's my feeling that they get neglected for the life of the bike in most cases, and a better firing plug will reduce stress on them. So from this standpoint, I believe iridiums are probably a good thing.

  4. #33
    Seasoned Member Kit Carson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwolffie View Post
    Anti-seize isn't always a good idea, sometimes it is a bad idea. Also if you get it on the wrong part of the plug it can short the plug out.

    NGK Technical Bulletin
    505 Apple Creek Blvd. Unit 1 Markham, Ontario L3R 5B1
    Toll Free Phone: 1-877-2-SPARKY (1-877-277-2759) Toll Free Fax: 1-877-3-SPARKY (1-877-377-2759)
    No. NGKSP-0907-1
    September 2007
    Topic
    The use of anti-seize compounds on spark plug threads that have a “special shell
    plating” (i.e. Trivalent coating).
    Issue
    Applying anti-seize to the threads of spark plugs that have a special metal plating
    thus allowing the installer to mistakenly over-torque the spark plug in the cylinder
    head. Over-torque stretches the metal between the last thread and the seal
    between the cylinder head and spark plug, causing a much higher probability that
    the spark plug will either break during installation or upon removal.
    Solution
    For spark plugs with special metal plating; anti-seize is not recommended during
    installation.
    Additional Information
    It is recommended to use spark plugs with the special plating on all aluminum
    cylinder head applications to prevent damage to the cylinder head. All NGK
    Spark Plugs are manufactured with special shell plating on the metal body.
    The use of anti-seize on spark plugs is only recommended on those brands that
    do not offer a special metal shell plating. Spark plugs that have a shiny silver
    appearance on the metal body usually indicate that the spark plug is
    manufactured with special metal shell plating. When installing spark plugs
    without special metal plating (with anti-seize), install based on vehicle
    manufacturer’s torque angle.
    No one in particular, but you guys make things way too complicated. If you use copper paste (anti-seize) on the plugs hey you do not gob it on there. Just a little will do. And it will prevent the threads from galling in the head .

    As for torque, hey I do not use a torque wrench on plugs anyways, I just secure them till the crush washer seats and that is that. Never had one come out yet.

    Kinda like measuring the oil so it is 3.81 quarts plus .9 for the expansion of the dip stick. With that I just figure if the oil is on the marks on the dipstick that this dipstick is ok.
    " The GL1800 " A grand motorcycle it is. For touring,fun and to see the world there is no other like it. Big and powerful and comfortable for those cross country rides. Also perhaps the very ultimate ambassador to itself and to those who ride it and meet new friends at the many meets and activities this machine brings to the equation.

  5. #34
    Seasoned Member jwolffie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit Carson View Post
    No one in particular, but you guys make things way too complicated. If you use copper paste (anti-seize) on the plugs hey you do not gob it on there. Just a little will do. And it will prevent the threads from galling in the head .

    As for torque, hey I do not use a torque wrench on plugs anyways, I just secure them till the crush washer seats and that is that. Never had one come out yet.

    Kinda like measuring the oil so it is 3.81 quarts plus .9 for the expansion of the dip stick. With that I just figure if the oil is on the marks on the dipstick that this dipstick is ok.
    How tight the plugs are does affect the heat range.
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    Seasoned Member SLOWDOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred H. View Post
    By the way, the GL1800 uses a wasted spark system which increases wear on the plugs and wires significantly. I'd sure like to see Honda upgrade the next Wing to a more modern system with individual coils on each plug. Most folks never change the plug wires on the GL1800 because to do so I believe you also have to replace the coils, as they are molded into them - and you have to remove the top shelter, gas tank, and airbox to get to them. I suspect there are a lot of GL1800's out there running around with worn out and leaky wires on them as a result. So from this standpoint, iridiums are a good idea, because they will fire off at a lower voltage and thus will reduce the strain on the wires by keeping the voltage down, so your plug wires and coils should last longer.
    Fred, I have some experience with the coil on plugs in Ford Expeditions and they have really been a PIA for me and many others. Of course I'm not sure that sort of hassle would transfer to a Goldwing. And I do agree that replacing plug wires is essential maintainence at some point...new plug wires can be a big performance boost in my experience. On my vehicles I always replace wires when I do the plugs if at all possible.
    Last edited by SLOWDOG; 10-19-2010 at 12:13 PM.
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  7. #36
    Supporting Vendor Fred H.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLOWDOG View Post
    Fred, I have some experience with the coil on plugs in Ford Expeditions and they have really been a PIA for me and many others. Of course I'm not sure that sort of hassle would transfer to a Goldwing. And I do agree that replacing plug wires is essential maintainence at some point...new plug wires can be a big performance boost in my experience. On my vehicles I always replace wires when I do the plugs if at all possible.
    I don't know anything about Ford Expeditions, but my Kawasaki Concours has stick coils on it and I haven't had a single problem with them. They work fine and I'll never have to worry about changing a spark plug wire on them.

    When is the last time you saw anyone post on this board that they replaced their spark plug wires on their GoldWing? My general feeling is that they are getting ignored by most folks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldWingrGreg View Post
    ... but true. The plug wires are very excessible if you pull the black cowl above the lower front cowl the coils are right there. Just an FYI, the plugs fire twice for emmision reasons,
    I have never heard that one. The plugs fire twice because they have to. With three coils and 6 plugs, the spark plugs are connected in pairs. Each pair is connected in series, using the block as a current path between the plugs. When one fires, the opposite one has to fire in order to complete the circuit. If you lose one plug, you lose two cylinders.
    Larry
    2002 Illusion Blue GL1800

  9. #38
    Seasoned Member Kit Carson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwolffie View Post
    How tight the plugs are does affect the heat range.
    So that is what does it?? Get pretty hot on that bike in South Carolina in the summer.

    I might loosen them up some for this winter so I can stay warm .

    Just messing around, Lol! It is learned by doing, once you install a few hundred plugs you just learn by the feel. Kinda like hand held L style allen wrenches, when you see the wrench flex just a bit, it is good. Lots of tricks to the trade.

    You would not want them loose and not so tight you break one, just something you learn to do. You will find very few professional mechanics use a torque wrench on plugs. Run them things in and give it a calibrated elbow and it is good. Elbow might need calibration from time to time , but never seen a problem with that.

    Kinda like rotor bolts, use a torque wrench and even a new one will snap. So you just learn to tighten them adequately , never had one of those fall out yet either.
    " The GL1800 " A grand motorcycle it is. For touring,fun and to see the world there is no other like it. Big and powerful and comfortable for those cross country rides. Also perhaps the very ultimate ambassador to itself and to those who ride it and meet new friends at the many meets and activities this machine brings to the equation.

  10. #39
    Seasoned Member upssnowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred H. View Post
    When is the last time you saw anyone post on this board that they replaced their spark plug wires on their Gold Wing? My general feeling is that they are getting ignored by most folks.

    My thoughts are todays engines car and bike are pretty good for 100K easily on stuff like this, I do check them when I change plugs bend and look for cracks ect.
    but I'd never change plug wires before about a 100K on cars and bikes today.
    on my last Toyota I actually ran them 300K and they were still good, but usually when I change a timing belt on the car (100K)I put on wires.
    there just a lot better quality then the old days and don't need it.
    Do it all now you may not be able to do it Later

  11. #40
    Seasoned Member jwolffie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit Carson View Post
    So that is what does it?? Get pretty hot on that bike in South Carolina in the summer.

    I might loosen them up some for this winter so I can stay warm .

    Just messing around, Lol! It is learned by doing, once you install a few hundred plugs you just learn by the feel. Kinda like hand held L style allen wrenches, when you see the wrench flex just a bit, it is good. Lots of tricks to the trade.

    You would not want them loose and not so tight you break one, just something you learn to do. You will find very few professional mechanics use a torque wrench on plugs. Run them things in and give it a calibrated elbow and it is good. Elbow might need calibration from time to time , but never seen a problem with that.

    Kinda like rotor bolts, use a torque wrench and even a new one will snap. So you just learn to tighten them adequately , never had one of those fall out yet either.
    Kit,
    I don't torque them either, but I do change plugs several times a week, on other peoples vehicles. I have found that when most people say they worked on it themselves the plugs are either too tight (won't come out) or too loose (coming out on their own). Maybe a torque wrench would be a good idea for them. You also wouldn't believe the different places I have found that people put the "free" anti-seize from the auto parts store. I have found more than 1 plug shorted out from it, and it also doesn't work well with the spark plug boots full of it. (the car was towed in)

    I have found that sometimes a little information can be very dangerous in the wrong hands.
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred H. View Post
    I don't know anything about Ford Expeditions, but my Kawasaki Concours has stick coils on it and I haven't had a single problem with them. They work fine and I'll never have to worry about changing a spark plug wire on them.

    When is the last time you saw anyone post on this board that they replaced their spark plug wires on their GoldWing? My general feeling is that they are getting ignored by most folks.
    I was looking at the maintenance schedule for my Grand Prix yesterday to see how often the plugs have to be changed, and I noticed it also mentioned the plug wires.

    It said that the plugs are to be changed at 100,000 miles, but it only recommended inspecting the plug wires at that mileage. Replacement isn't specified until 200,000 miles. At that point, the replacement is probably suggested just out of general principle.

    The ignition system voltage doesn't break down a spark plug wire. A wire's only enemy is heat from the engine. And the materials used to make spark plug wires today are very resistant to heat.

    There is a very good reason why people never replace them. Plug wires just don't go bad like they did 40 years ago. Everything last longer. I changed the serpentine belt on my car last weekend as was amazed that there wasn't one crack in the belt at 63,000 miles. When I looked in the manual, I found that it wasn't recommended until 120,000 miles. That's amazing.
    Last edited by LarryM; 10-20-2010 at 05:42 AM.
    Larry
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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit Carson View Post
    You would not want them loose and not so tight you break one, just something you learn to do. You will find very few professional mechanics use a torque wrench on plugs.
    LOL, I don't torque mine either, but I certainly wouldn't use a professional mechanic as my reasoning. These are the same gorillas that mount your wheels with an impact wrench.
    Larry
    2002 Illusion Blue GL1800

  14. #43
    Seasoned Member Kit Carson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwolffie View Post
    Kit,
    I don't torque them either, but I do change plugs several times a week, on other peoples vehicles. I have found that when most people say they worked on it themselves the plugs are either too tight (won't come out) or too loose (coming out on their own). Maybe a torque wrench would be a good idea for them. You also wouldn't believe the different places I have found that people put the "free" anti-seize from the auto parts store. I have found more than 1 plug shorted out from it, and it also doesn't work well with the spark plug boots full of it. (the car was towed in)

    I have found that sometimes a little information can be very dangerous in the wrong hands.
    Yep you are right.

    Take those wind wings and especially the dragon wings. If someone wants me to change an air filter for them, I instruct them to take the side trim and wind wings and crap off themselves. And make them install it. I just kinda do thing for friends, but I have learned about them too.


    They will not use the right bolts, and wallow the fasteners and strip the thread boss inserts and then blame it on you. So I just let them worry with it, then change the filter for them.

    I subscribe to the theory that if it is not a structural part or safety item snug is good. Gorilla fist methods are not. And Duh, if a fastener does not start easy, vice grips and a hammer is not cool.

    I understand, completely.

    Or you have a friend call and he is trying to change the oil and cannot get the drain plug out, you pick up his socket wrench and it is in left hand thread mode. Nope not coming out like that.
    " The GL1800 " A grand motorcycle it is. For touring,fun and to see the world there is no other like it. Big and powerful and comfortable for those cross country rides. Also perhaps the very ultimate ambassador to itself and to those who ride it and meet new friends at the many meets and activities this machine brings to the equation.

  15. #44
    Supporting Vendor Fred H.'s Avatar
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    High voltages on plug wires will indeed acellerate wear on them. Surface contamination on the wires themselves can lead to high voltage leaks and corona on the wire, and once this starts to happen the voltage leaks will further break down the silicone rubber insulation and causes the wire to further degrade, and can even make pin holes in the wires, sometime too small to see with the naked eye. If you see white residue or small white spots on your wires, that's a pretty good indication of a high voltage leak.

    All wires will leak to some extent, and over time, this leakage can and will cause the insulation properties of wire to degrade. Keeping wires off of metal parts where they can ground out will help, as will keeping the outer surface of them clean. Look close at the mounting points on the head of the Wing and you'll notice the wire holders all have plastic covers over them so there is no direct metal contact onto the outer wire cover, and the wires are also wrapped with a protective plastic cover to try to minimize voltage leaks.

    I can't definitely say at what point the Wings wires need to be replaced because I haven't done any serious testing of them, but I have seen white residue on my plug wires from leaks. If I were to guess at a good replacement interval I would probably say somewhere between 80K-100K miles would be a safe bet. It's just like anything else on this bike, they degrade in performance slowly and you probably won't notice it until you change them and put a fresh set in. Will they actually get bad enough to cause a problem like preventing the bike from starting or running? Probably not for a really long time. But just cause the bike starts and runs, does that mean they aren't leaking and reducing performance? (Hint: No).

    It's your call, just like any maintenance is on this bike. You can not worry about it till it actually totally fails and then replace it, and it may run for 500K miles like that. Or you can replace it long before it every totally fails in an effort to keep the bike performing like it did when it was new.

    I'm all about performance and getting every last bit of HP and torque out of my vehicles, and so I typically replace parts like plug wires and plugs and oil more often than others. You'll have to make your own decisions on what style of maintenance fits you best.

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    Default Going To Install Them

    Just came from my local auto parts store that ordered me a set of iridium plugs for my 04.
    Just bought the bike last month with only 3300 miles on it. Not sure if the previous owner had cleaned the plugs with such low mileage, but I've been noticing the odd bit of roughness at low rpm. Also not sure if it's a fuel problem, but the easiest thing to do is change the plugs. Granted, I could have just removed the old ones and cleaned and re-gapped them to see if that cures my little problem, but as I stated in a previous post on this thread, I really love iridium plugs, and for $54 including tax, it's a good reason to put them in.
    Not good weather here on Cape Cod for the next few days, but will post an update and road report later on.
    Jack

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    Seasoned Member murf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit Carson View Post
    No one in particular, but you guys make things way too complicated. If you use copper paste (anti-seize) on the plugs hey you do not gob it on there. Just a little will do. And it will prevent the threads from galling in the head .

    As for torque, hey I do not use a torque wrench on plugs anyways, I just secure them till the crush washer seats and that is that. Never had one come out yet.

    Kinda like measuring the oil so it is 3.81 quarts plus .9 for the expansion of the dip stick. With that I just figure if the oil is on the marks on the dipstick that this dipstick is ok.
    IMHO, I didn't think it was way too complicated. The purpose of those coatings the mfr's put on the plugs is to resist corrosion and assure quick and easy removal of the plugs. No anti seize is required on those plugs as that coating will also prevent galling.

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    They will extend the change interval, but are much more costly, so no advantage... you won't notice a single performance difference on a GL1800.



    Quote Originally Posted by IR Harry View Post
    Yeah. Stay with the originals.

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    Remember those plugs with a V cut in them? They were snake oil from what i read. Wonder if they're still in business?

    I use the Iridium and have no complaints

  20. #49
    Seasoned Member Kit Carson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf View Post
    IMHO, I didn't think it was way too complicated. The purpose of those coatings the mfr's put on the plugs is to resist corrosion and assure quick and easy removal of the plugs. No anti seize is required on those plugs as that coating will also prevent galling.
    This is true. So much of it is over kill. I do some things as I do not maintain my other vehicles very well. I take care of my bike, it is my toy. But the other vehicles, I hate cars. Lol!! I run one till it dies.

    My jeep got to acting up, would run rough and die at the stops. I took it home and put the test set on it and 4 of the six plugs showed a fault code. When I took them out there was no plug, just a dark spot where the electrode used to be.

    About time I reckon it has 180,000 on it and as far as I know never a new plug. They were a bit stuck. The brake fluid looks kinda of a dark green color. Still works, one day I will tackle that.
    " The GL1800 " A grand motorcycle it is. For touring,fun and to see the world there is no other like it. Big and powerful and comfortable for those cross country rides. Also perhaps the very ultimate ambassador to itself and to those who ride it and meet new friends at the many meets and activities this machine brings to the equation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry View Post
    I have never heard that one. The plugs fire twice because they have to. With three coils and 6 plugs, the spark plugs are connected in pairs. Each pair is connected in series, using the block as a current path between the plugs. When one fires, the opposite one has to fire in order to complete the circuit. If you lose one plug, you lose two cylinders.
    Many engines today produce a spark on the exhaust stroke for emissions purposes as there are always residual unburnt gases. True it is a wasted spark in a way but beneficial in another way and you only need three coils instead of six. Each pair of spark plugs has it's own high voltage lead from the coil and the engine is a common ground so each plug is not dependent on the other as you say. The only way you would loose firing of both plugs is if the coil were defective. If one plug went bad, the other would still fire. Look at the ignition system schematic and you will see this is true.
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    Seasoned Member 100MPG's Avatar
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    I just bought a set for my PU will let you know Monday how I like them. Only have 15000 on the bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by USCANAM View Post
    Just came from my local auto parts store that ordered me a set of iridium plugs for my 04.
    Just bought the bike last month with only 3300 miles on it. Not sure if the previous owner had cleaned the plugs with such low mileage, but I've been noticing the odd bit of roughness at low rpm. Also not sure if it's a fuel problem, but the easiest thing to do is change the plugs. Granted, I could have just removed the old ones and cleaned and re-gapped them to see if that cures my little problem, but as I stated in a previous post on this thread, I really love iridium plugs, and for $54 including tax, it's a good reason to put them in.
    Not good weather here on Cape Cod for the next few days, but will post an update and road report later on.
    Jack
    Update
    Put plugs in yesterday. Only started bike and once it warmed up did not do the rpm surging at idle like it did before.
    My wife and I rode out for breakfast this morning, and it's the best it's ever ran in the 800 miles or so since I bought it.
    Suppose it ran like an 1800 is supposed to, no surging or missing at low rpm, just a nice smooth power curve.
    To re-cap,, the bike had 4100 miles on it when I changed the plugs. I've been around and worked on engines for almost 60 years, so I have a little experience. When looking at the removed plugs, aside from a little carbon on the inside, you would say these plugs almost look brand new. they are NGK R BKR6E -11, and am assuming they came from the factory. They are the plugs that have the V notch in the center electrode. I replaced them with NGK BKR6EIX-11.
    Obviously, I might have had the same improvement with new regular plugs, and not having driven the bike new, I don't know if performance now had improved with the iridium plugs, but if my experience with iridum plugs over the years and their lack of fouling properties is present with these plugs, I'm looking forward to many thousands of trouble free and efficient miles.
    Regards
    Jack

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    Strange as this might sound but I have a 2005 Saturn Vue that GM put the 3.5L Honda Pilot engines in the Vues. From the factory the installed Iridium spark plugs and with about 68k miles on them they still look real good.
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    G-mann, are you sure those are Iridium plugs. Honda and GM both use platinum plugs extensively, which are good for 100,000 miles. Iridium's are not all that common as OEM plugs.
    Larry
    2002 Illusion Blue GL1800

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    Quote Originally Posted by USCANAM View Post
    Update
    Put plugs in yesterday. Only started bike and once it warmed up did not do the rpm surging at idle like it did before.
    My wife and I rode out for breakfast this morning, and it's the best it's ever ran in the 800 miles or so since I bought it.
    Suppose it ran like an 1800 is supposed to, no surging or missing at low rpm, just a nice smooth power curve.
    To re-cap,, the bike had 4100 miles on it when I changed the plugs. I've been around and worked on engines for almost 60 years, so I have a little experience. When looking at the removed plugs, aside from a little carbon on the inside, you would say these plugs almost look brand new. they are NGK R BKR6E -11, and am assuming they came from the factory. They are the plugs that have the V notch in the center electrode. I replaced them with NGK BKR6EIX-11.
    Obviously, I might have had the same improvement with new regular plugs, and not having driven the bike new, I don't know if performance now had improved with the iridium plugs, but if my experience with iridum plugs over the years and their lack of fouling properties is present with these plugs, I'm looking forward to many thousands of trouble free and efficient miles.
    Regards
    Jack

    there are no V-notch center electrode spark plugs that Honda uses. someone put them in your bike after is was purchased from at the dealer.

    NGK are standard.

    John
    '07 blue gl1800, Level 3, reg risers, utopia backrest, honda fog lights, Mic-o-Pegs, traxxion fork springs, fork brace, rear shock and Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 ZP . Darksider #1211

    Prowler #2

  27. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgalfo View Post
    there are no V-notch center electrode spark plugs that Honda uses. someone put them in your bike after is was purchased from at the dealer.

    NGK are standard.

    John
    Thanks John
    Just out of curiosity, will ask the previous owner who is a fellow flying buddy

  28. #57
    Seasoned Member sydvicioustx's Avatar
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    Just ordered them off Amazon for $6.50ea. With 35k miles I can't go wrong and it's worth a little extra $$. We spend so much more on farkles...why not spend a little more on this?

    Are they fun changing?

    Syd - Plano,TX
    '12 Road Glide Ultra Classic
    '05 Silver Wing, traded in
    '05 BMW K1200LT - KIA

    Vice-President Blue Knights TX 38

  29. #58
    Seasoned Member BJMax's Avatar
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    Default 58000

    Got a set in mine with over 20,000 miles...Had a set in a a 1500 that I nstalled at 30,000..Sold the bike at 88,000 w/iridium plugs still in and the guy who bought it sold it at 122 thousand and says he never installed new plugs....! Still going strong last I heard...
    bj max
    The Redneck Files
    Minnesota Motorcycle Monthly
    http://www.bjmaxonline.com/
    Life is short. Ride Far.

  30. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sydvicioustx View Post

    Are they fun changing?
    Yes they are fun, and no problem.
    Use proper shop tools such as allen sockets, and a 5/8" deep socket with at least a 4" extension and ratchet handle.
    Remove lower 5 allen screws, and remove cover. There are the plugs.
    Should be able to do the job in less than 1/2 hour.
    Takes me a little longer since I have to remover the mick-o-pegs to have enough room to remove the covers.
    Jack

  31. #60
    Seasoned Member G-mann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
    G-mann, are you sure those are Iridium plugs. Honda and GM both use platinum plugs extensively, which are good for 100,000 miles. Iridium's are not all that common as OEM plugs.
    When on the side of the plug it has the word Iridum on the side I would guess it is a Iridum plug.
    Greetings form Gene & Jean
    EMP Rural Fire Fighter


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