Gl-1800 anti-dive unit disable
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    Default Gl-1800 anti-dive unit disable

    This is what I recall:

    To disable the anti-dive unit on the 1800, separate the two halves and insert a oil drain plug sealing washer between the two halves and tighten.

    There will be no fluid leak, and the two bolts will be long enough to secure the unit with the washer in them.

    My ANTI DIVE IS STUCK OR SOMETHING, ROCK SOLID - NO COMPRESSION OF FORKS. TERRIBLE RIDE!!!!!!

    IF YOU HAVE MORE CORRECT INFORMATION OF WHAT I HAVE GIVEN, OR IF YOU KNOW OF A BETTER WAY TO GET THIS JOB DON, PLEASE TELL ME!!!!!

    THANKS A BUNCH!!

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    Seasoned Member srinehart's Avatar
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    I got a piece off ebay that was machined to fit in between the anti dive valve off ebay for 20 dollars, no leak, others have used o-rings and even nickles with holes drilled in them.


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    Cheapest method is a Nickle with a 7/32" hold drilled dead center. Stops the plunger and fits the recess area perfect.
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    Go on Ebay and do a search "anti dive shim".

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    I have both a nickle with a hole in it, and a oil drain bolt washer.

    Thanks fellows.

    I have just completed to temporary fix. Used the washer.

    Brother Richard - next entry down - thanks for the additional info.
    Last edited by Preacher Cliff; 01-18-2011 at 05:21 PM.

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    Cliff, to each their own. I am not an advocate of disabling the ADV unless you have upgraded your suspension. If the ADV is stuck, I would clean it out and make it operational again. Worse case, I'd replace it. The fact that it is stuck solid leads me to believe proper maintenance was not performed on the bike. This is just one person's opinion, so take it for what it is worth. Good luck with whatever you do.
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    Good information from everyone, maybe I am missing something here..... Where do these special made or eBay purchased do-dads go on the bike? An illistration or picture would be nice. Inquiring minds want to know.

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    Seasoned Member Kit Carson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54marko View Post
    Good information from everyone, maybe I am missing something here..... Where do these special made or eBay purchased do-dads go on the bike? An illistration or picture would be nice. Inquiring minds want to know.
    That do dad comes with two longer bolts. It simply bolts between the upper and lower half of the anti dive valve. The thing costs 20-25 bucks and shipping whatever that might be. Maybe shipping if so called free??

    The nickle trick is the best, or if you are sure, just saw the top plunger tit off. Put it back together.
    " The GL1800 " A grand motorcycle it is. For touring,fun and to see the world there is no other like it. Big and powerful and comfortable for those cross country rides. Also perhaps the very ultimate ambassador to itself and to those who ride it and meet new friends at the many meets and activities this machine brings to the equation.

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    Preacher Cliff. Check out the step by step section in this forum and look for anti dive fixes. Good informatin there. I used some o rings and the problem is solved. I plan to upgrade the front forks and when I do that will disable the ADV but not until then. Good Luck

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    Here you go: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GL180...item41483765d2

    Here also is a link to Fred's site that will tell you how to maintain or disable.

    http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/antidive
    Last edited by exrangermike; 01-19-2011 at 03:15 PM.
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    Default Anti dive

    I PUT THE DRAIN BOLT WASHER IN LAST EVENING. GOT MYSELF A "NEW RIDE" IN DOING SO.

    THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR THE RESPONSES. I AM NOT AN AGGRESSIVE RIDER AT 76 YEARS OLD. THE SLIGHT "DIVE" when braking causes me no concern.

    My greatest concern is daily riding on salted winter snow/ice laden roads. That stuff sure messes up rims and valve covers.

    Merry Christmas to all. (Let me LIKELY be the first to say that to you!) IT MAY BE AGAINST THE LAWS OF OUR COUNTRY BY NEXT DECEMBER TO SAY THAT.

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    Seasoned Member GoldWingrGreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher Cliff View Post
    I PUT THE DRAIN BOLT WASHER IN LAST EVENING. GOT MYSELF A "NEW RIDE" IN DOING SO.

    THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR THE RESPONSES. I AM NOT AN AGGRESSIVE RIDER AT 76 YEARS OLD. THE SLIGHT "DIVE" when braking causes me no concern.

    My greatest concern is daily riding on salted winter snow/ice laden roads. That stuff sure messes up rims and valve covers.

    Merry Christmas to all. (Let me LIKELY be the first to say that to you!) IT MAY BE AGAINST THE LAWS OF OUR COUNTRY BY NEXT DECEMBER TO SAY THAT.
    In most cases, the ADV goes bad from lack of maintanance. The correct fix is to replace the ADV, flush the brake/clutch system. And then flush those systems every 12k. Honda uses the ADV to control the weight from shifting forward. Weight shift lessons and increases the tire patch size on the pavement and under various conditions, the patch size is critical for proper braking and handling. Disabling the ADV means under certain conditions, the rear tire patch is to small for evasive manuvers.

    As an example, I recently had a Wing where the rear tire was below the wear bars. The front was ok. Not only would the rear tire loose traction when leaving a stop when turning L or R, but it would take me about 3 states to do a U-turn. The bald tire is an example of contact patch size being correct but because of no tread no traction, it is about the same as good tread with not enought tread hitting the pavement. Both represent no traction when needed most.

    Many, here will disagree with this. Many don't maintain their bike as required. Some do and beleive the ADV causes the LF fork seal to blow. Many disable the ADV, OH the forks only to find that the fork seal blows again. Some will loose faith in the ADV because theirs failed before the brakes even needed bleeding. And yes, all that maybe true, but remember, the brake and suspension systems are integrated and are intender to work togeather. The integration is done through the use of an ADV and a working ADV is critical for proper braking and handling. These are big bikes with a lot of weight to control.
    Last edited by GoldWingrGreg; 01-21-2011 at 09:23 AM.

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    If you ADV isn't working,get ir replaced.It's to hard to locate the proper o-rings,or for guys to want to take on the challange.So they opt for a new ADV.

    My bike has 93K and the ADV has never been touched because it still works.I guess changing he fluids when you are supposed to does work after all.

    I've had 10 items go wrong on this bike,but the ADV isn't one of them.
    Pisses me off. You guys have all the fun.

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    Seasoned Member Kit Carson's Avatar
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    Well I understand hydralics pretty good. The anti dive is not gonna cause the left seal to blow. When the antidive closes off the fluid tranfer port it simply locks the mechanism. It does not put pressure against the seal. Not anymore than it normally has . Not sure what that is , but most likely not much.

    But in the interest of keeping the front tire contact in touch with the road, all I can tell you is how mine acted at about 4K. It would lock up during braking on rough roads. If there was uneven pavement or on gravel or that kind of thing ,it would get to crowhopping during braking. So partially disabling it kept the front tire on the road.

    Never on smooth roads, only rough ones. I always figured inertia had something to do with that, not sure, but I think maybe so.

    So I played with it, and partially disabled it. Took the preload off of it so it would not do that, but under heavy braking it would still work.

    Now I have a good suspension system and it is not a concern. But when the bike was new, it did used to act the fool on rough roads.
    " The GL1800 " A grand motorcycle it is. For touring,fun and to see the world there is no other like it. Big and powerful and comfortable for those cross country rides. Also perhaps the very ultimate ambassador to itself and to those who ride it and meet new friends at the many meets and activities this machine brings to the equation.

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    Kit,

    Thanks for the input. I do like your various commentary on the board.

    I've noticed my forks locking up and giving me a slam through the handlebars just going over the curb into the driveway. How did you partially disable the ADV? Thinner shim??
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    [QUOTE=ssncob;3160875]Kit,


    I've noticed my forks locking up and giving me a slam through the handlebars just going over the curb into the driveway. QUOTE]

    If your frt forks are compressing, then it is probably you steering head bearings.

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    Funny how even with stiffer/upgraded springs, my front suspension doesn't go BANG everytime I enter my driveway now that the ADV is disabled. Which it did from day one as a new bike.

    Of course some people like that stock feeling.
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    Well, here I go spitt'n in the wind, because overall I disagree with GoldWingrGreg, Rocky, and Kit Carson.

    I believe Honda put in the ADV for one specific reason. They have very weak stock fork springs to give the Wing the softest ride possible. In order to keep the front forks from compressing through most of their travel under normal to heavy braking, they put in the ADV. Front end dive upsets many riders and everyone expect this luxury touring bike to has a cushy "Cadallac" ride so the soft springs and ADV solved (sort of) these two counter acting characteristics.

    The problem with the ADV, as I see it, is that when you brake enough to activate the valve, it restricts the flow of fork fluid so severely that it almost acts like a complete blockage (for a short time). That makes the fork fluid pressure in the left fork increase significantly, sometimes to the point of causing a virtual hydrolic lock, thereby stopping any further compression of the left fork.

    Now when that happens under moderate braking on smooth pavement, the results are not all that bad. If you are braking hard as your tire hits a bid bump, the left fork pressure can skyrocket. This puts much more strain on your left fork seal which is why that seal typically fails much more often than the right.

    Can you have an acceptable ride with the stock suspension and a properly working ADV if you are not an overly aggressive rider? Yeah, many would say YES, and that is fine with me. Personnally, I ride the ol' girl pretty hard, and I found that situation completely unacceptable.

    My solution was to disable the ADV and install a Race-Tech Gold Cartridge Emulator kit with significantly stiffer springs. The new springs do a much better job of supporting the significant weight of the Gold Wing and they do an adequate job of keeping the front end from diving while braking. I also don't blow out left fork seals like I did before the upgrade. The ride is a little ruffer than stock especially on "pebbely" roads but it feels more planted.

    One thing I will agree with is that I would not disable the ADV if you are keeping the stock fork springs.
    Last edited by Mark Rowell; 01-21-2011 at 03:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssncob View Post
    Kit,

    Thanks for the input. I do like your various commentary on the board.

    I've noticed my forks locking up and giving me a slam through the handlebars just going over the curb into the driveway. How did you partially disable the ADV? Thinner shim??
    Fred came up with the first idea, it was an E clip or washer, put under the top . Then a few more ideas, this and that. His solution is on the site somewhere, has been a couple years.

    The easiest way was to go get two small washers at Napa auto parts, the perfect size to fit around the allen bolt and small enough to fit in the housing area of the anti dive and an oring that will fit inside but still be fat enough to make a seal.

    Simply put the oring between the two halves, put the washers between the two halves , naturally around the bolts, and bolt it all back. The washes hold the plunger up a bit , enough to take the preload off the valve, and the oring makes a dirt and water seal to keep road gunk out of the valve.

    That is how I fixed mine. I did not come up with the washer trick someone told me about that, but I refined it with the oring. That is neater than caulk or some other something.

    Then cause everyone tole me I was going to crash and burn with stock springs I took the bike up to the big church parking lot and did a few emergency stops. It still worked fine but smoothed out about 90 percent of that handlebar feel and stopped the crow hopping during braking.

    That way you do not totally disable it, it is still there if you need it for an emergency stop. That is its purpose, to hold the front tire planted without dive in a hard stop.
    " The GL1800 " A grand motorcycle it is. For touring,fun and to see the world there is no other like it. Big and powerful and comfortable for those cross country rides. Also perhaps the very ultimate ambassador to itself and to those who ride it and meet new friends at the many meets and activities this machine brings to the equation.

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    Default Thank-you Kit

    Thanks for the info Kit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54marko View Post
    Good information from everyone, maybe I am missing something here..... Where do these special made or eBay purchased do-dads go on the bike? An illistration or picture would be nice. Inquiring minds want to know.



    Last edited by INTHEWIND; 01-21-2011 at 06:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit Carson View Post
    Well I understand hydralics pretty good.

    Lesson learned from cleaning out your renter's clogged kitchen sink drain today? Oh wait. She is still cursing you out for not clearing the clog because you "forgot."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rowell View Post
    The problem with the ADV, as I see it, is that when you brake enough to activate the valve, it restricts the flow of fork fluid so severely that it almost acts like a complete blockage (for a short time). That makes the fork fluid pressure in the left fork increase significantly, sometimes to the point of causing a virtual hydrolic lock, thereby stopping any further compression of the left fork.

    One thing I will agree with is that I would not disable the ADV if you are keeping the stock fork springs.
    Mark Rowell is right. Essentially, the ADV is a hydraulic slave cylinder which activates a hydraulic valve whichs restricts or stops fork fluid flow in the hydraulic fork leg. If the flow is severely restricted and the forks are trying to compress (rapidly), the fork seal is seeing the pressure spike and the seal is not suited for the shock loading, especially, if the guides and bushings are starting to wear.

    I first encountered this on a 1982 Suzuki Katana which had ADVs on both forks. I bought this bike new and within 3 weeks, I neutered the ADVs and added stiffer springs.


    Didn't work worth a crap there either. The Suzuki version had "pop off" valves in the system, whereas, if you hit a sharp bump under braking, it would allow the fluid to by-pass and would restrict the flow again upon rebound assuming the brakes were still applied. The ADV was short lived on sport bikes due to bad performance. It is one of those things that in theory looks good but in reality, didn't pan out too well.

    Another problem I see with the Honda design is that it is only on one leg. Under braking and hitting a pothole, etc, one leg is stiff and the other leg is compliant. So what is the tendency there? What prevents a "cocking" motion in the front-end? The axle...on a bike this heavy...with that much inertia and momentum? Must reek havoc on the guides, bushing, tubes, neck bearings, etc....all for what, a cushy ride. Doesn't add up to me.

    The best way to disable I found was to replace the cross-drilled bolt(s) that goes through the banjo fitting on the ADV line(s) with a solid bolt. If you grind the tit off the little slave cylinder, you still have piston movement which requires more fluid movement and lever movement at the handlebar. Removing the "slave" cylinder from the equation provides a firmer lever under braking. With the ebay spacer or drilled nickel (which works as far as the fork valve is concerned), the slave cylinder is still stroking under the application of the brakes (its just out of touch with the fork valve) and although the stroke is short, you have to consider how small the piston is in the master cylinder and what that equates to in fluid movement. I may build some spacers similar to the ebay ones with a "pocket" rather than a drilled-thru hole properly spaced out to keep the piston from moving but on the otherhand, the solid bolt through the banjo fitting is the cheapest/simplest/quickest fix. The best fix would be to totally remove the jumper hydraulic hose from the ADV all together but is more trouble than its worth...unless you are racing MotoGP.

    I recently Traxxionized the front end on my '10 and there are two fork seals on the left fork...the standard "can" seal as most bikes have and a second seal sandwiched between two metal back-up rings below the canned seal. The sandwiched seal is the primary seal and the canned seal is secondary. The right fork just has two metal spacer and no extra seal. I didn't recall the second seal on my '03 when I Traxxionized it and figured out, later, that it was a change Honda made on the '06 models as they recognized the problem and tried to put a band-aid on it. The things they do to avoid correcting the front end never ceases to amaze me.



    Honda probabaly already produces a cartridge that would work in the front end as it is only responsibe for dampening in either direction (proper restriction of fluid movement...nothing to do with the weight of the bike) and the rest would be handled by higher rate springs which are dirt cheap. With an upgraded suspension, the ADV is irrelevant and is just excess plumbing.

    I guess the folks over at Traxxion got to make a living, too.

    Z

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    I bought my bike used with 9K on it. Almost right away, the ADV locked up when braking and I disabled the stinking thing and was much happier with the way it rode and braked too. My wife riding with me could tell the difference, she said. I left the stock springs in for over three years and about 40K and was happy with that too. I did finally upgrade the fork springs with a fork service but you certainly can run the stock springs and be happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motocopter View Post
    Lesson learned from cleaning out your renter's clogged kitchen sink drain today? Oh wait. She is still cursing you out for not clearing the clog because you "forgot."
    Naw I relented. But she owes the company 40 bucks for having the sink trap totally packed with pasta. I even took photos.

    You can tell, when they act like that, they know,
    " The GL1800 " A grand motorcycle it is. For touring,fun and to see the world there is no other like it. Big and powerful and comfortable for those cross country rides. Also perhaps the very ultimate ambassador to itself and to those who ride it and meet new friends at the many meets and activities this machine brings to the equation.

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    These threads are pretty funny in a demented sort of way because they make me laugh.Not at what still happens,but because you guys fell for the sales pitch that is BS at best.

    We all know who tells you that the Left fork seal blows because of the ADV getting stuck.They sell expensive fork kits!

    We also know that after you pay the $$ thinking you won't have left fork seals leak anymore,You find that your left fork seal can still leak down the road.
    So the Salesman who sold you on the BS says "It's out my fault-seals leak all the time" uh huh!

    My 04 w/93K has never had a left fork seal leak.I have had to replace my right seal three times with OEM seals,and got tired of that so I went to a triple lip seal and no more issues.

    While as a mechanic owner I feel bad for you guys who still suffer a left fork seal leak after you disable the ADV,Yet I laugh at the same time because you fell for the sales pitch to get your cash for a product that "Didn't" cure the left fork seal leak.but hey-it not there fault right.

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    Seasoned Member Mark Rowell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rowell View Post
    ... I also don't blow out left fork seals like I did before the upgrade. The ride is a little ruffer than stock especially on "pebbely" roads but it feels more planted...
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    These threads are pretty funny in a demented sort of way because they make me laugh.Not at what still happens,but because you guys fell for the sales pitch that is BS at best.

    We all know who tells you that the Left fork seal blows because of the ADV getting stuck.They sell expensive fork kits!

    We also know that after you pay the $$ thinking you won't have left fork seals leak anymore,You find that your left fork seal can still leak down the road.
    So the Salesman who sold you on the BS says "It's out my fault-seals leak all the time" uh huh!

    My 04 w/93K has never had a left fork seal leak.I have had to replace my right seal three times with OEM seals,and got tired of that so I went to a triple lip seal and no more issues.

    While as a mechanic owner I feel bad for you guys who still suffer a left fork seal leak after you disable the ADV,Yet I laugh at the same time because you fell for the sales pitch to get your cash for a product that "Didn't" cure the left fork seal leak.but hey-it not there fault right.
    Rocky - I am NOT one of those who bought a Traxxion...errr, I mean "expensive" front fork rebuilds. I bought and installed myself the much cheaper Race-Tech upgrade. I did not make that decision to aleviate the issue of blowing out left fork seals although that IS why I disabled the ADV. What I did notice is that when the ADV was "working", I blew out (gushing, not seeping) two left fork seals and never a right fork seal. After doing the Race Tech upgrade and disabling the ADV, I have done one fork refresh/maintenance when the right fork seal started seeping slightly. Is that conclusive evidence that the ADV is much harder on the left fork seal? Not really. Too small of a sample size. But it IS subjective evidence that backs up my theory of the ADV causing the left fork fluid pressure to spike when braking and hitting a large bump/pothole thereby contributing to the left fork seal failing. You can believe what you like about the ADV being a contibution to those left fork seal failures or not. No skin off my nose what you believe.

    Now I WILL take your advice and look for something other than stock fork seals for the next time I do a fork overhaul. If you can send a source my way I would appreciate it. Its never a bad thing to install a better part on your bike if the stock part is prone to fail. And no, I don't buy into Max's hype that fork seal failures are completely a result of the crappy Honda fork design, but I do believe it may be another contributing factor.

    Maybe we can get together and talk over a beer the next time I am down in sunny San Diego. I usually have a business meeting down there 2-3 times a year. Better yet, maybe we can meet for dinner at Phill's BBQ at 3750 Sports Arena Blvd and see if we can solve all of the problems with our beloved Gold Wing while slogging our way through a full rack of ribs. Yummy for the tummy! Have a nice day and don't forget to go riding and smile!
    Last edited by Mark Rowell; 01-27-2011 at 12:44 AM.
    Former MSF/CMSP instructor, IBA#6027
    2005 GL-1800A, Metalic Silver
    Retired in Roseburg, OR

  29. #28
    Seasoned Member Kit Carson's Avatar
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    I got a good one for all of you.

    Why are the lower fork tubes , casings, whatever you call them wearing. ???

    Is it wear or are there some bad castings from the factory, but they wear right where the lower bushings slide and stop.

    My left one is worn , but I have seen others on the right worn, so much for my AD theory.

    The other curious thing is the bushings will be in spec, and still have most of the gray coating.

    What is up with that. Are they putting sand in the fork oil. ?????
    " The GL1800 " A grand motorcycle it is. For touring,fun and to see the world there is no other like it. Big and powerful and comfortable for those cross country rides. Also perhaps the very ultimate ambassador to itself and to those who ride it and meet new friends at the many meets and activities this machine brings to the equation.

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rowell View Post
    Now I WILL take your advice and look for something other than stock fork seals for the next time I do a fork overhaul. If you can send a source my way I would appreciate it. Its never a bad thing to install a better part on your bike if the stock part is prone to fail. And no, I don't buy into Max's hype that fork seal failures are completely a result of the crappy Honda fork design, but I do believe it may be another contributing factor.

    You are one who can think for himself and got what I was trying to say.

    Maybe we can get together and talk over a beer the next time I am down in sunny San Diego. I usually have a business meeting down there 2-3 times a year. Better yet, maybe we can meet for dinner at Phill's BBQ at 3750 Sports Arena Blvd and see if we can solve all of the problems with our beloved Gold Wing while slogging our way through a full rack of ribs. Yummy for the tummy! Have a nice day and don't forget to go riding and smile!
    The fork seals I'm using aren't secret.They are the Triple lip seals from All Balls.
    While some companies think what they sell is "good enough".All Balls improver there own seal after testing on rubbem compound for a better rubber compound they are currently using/selling.

    I'd be glad to hook up with you when you come out this way.Who doesn't like Phil's and ribs.lol
    I'm about 15 minutes from there.

    You too have a good day.

  31. #30
    Seasoned Member BASSNMAN's Avatar
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    I would like to see a pic of the nickel in the ADV, seen the store bought spacer....
    who w/ be the 1st to post the pics
    Pat G
    2004 Black Wing, Ridin on an Ultimate Seat, the best there is....
    99 Harley Ultra Classic
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    AMA #5181144
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    *RETIRED & LUVIN EVERY MINUTE OF IT*

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