Unemployment....I just don't understand it...
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    Seasoned Member Flyboyron's Avatar
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    Default Unemployment....I just don't understand it...

    One of our workers came to work with a broken hand and couldn't work.
    The boss complained that he wasn't doing a good job like he was supposed to and now couldn't work at all and told him...Adios!

    So the guy goes down to file for unemployment saying because he hurt himself he couldn't work.

    The boss gets a letter indicating they want his side of the story and he tells them the wasn't doing his job up to their satisfaction so they let him go.

    The Employment office sends us a determination letter indicating that the employee didn't fall under the misconduct rule and was eligible for unemployment, however since he said he was physically unable to work, he would not be paid until he was able and willing to work and then could re-open a claim.

    So I guess if you don't do a good job at work and get fired, you can always go down and collect unemployment..............is that the way I understand it?
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    Seasoned Member sk8nmike's Avatar
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    Two things going here. If he broke his hand on company time it's a workers comp claim and shouldn't have been fired. I from the story I'm guessing he broke it on his own time so no workers comp here, also as this was not work related his inability to preform his job falls on his shoulders so the boss has reasonable cause to terminate him (nothing about moral reasons here).

    Now on to Unemployment benefits. Since his is injured and unable to work he is also unemployable, hence ineligible for unemployment benefits as these are funds to assist you while you look for a job. So until he's able to work no benefits, also the employer can deny the claim because it was thru no fault of the company that he was unable to preform his job so he was terminated for cause.

    Catch 22 I know, but those are the rules
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8nmike View Post
    Two things going here. If he broke his hand on company time it's a workers comp claim and shouldn't have been fired. I from the story I'm guessing he broke it on his own time so no workers comp here, also as this was not work related his inability to preform his job falls on his shoulders so the boss has reasonable cause to terminate him (nothing about moral reasons here).

    Now on to Unemployment benefits. Since his is injured and unable to work he is also unemployable, hence ineligible for unemployment benefits as these are funds to assist you while you look for a job. So until he's able to work no benefits, also the employer can deny the claim because it was thru no fault of the company that he was unable to preform his job so he was terminated for cause.

    Catch 22 I know, but those are the rules
    I'm sure different states probably apply different rules but.. It sounds as though the employer ATTEMPTED to deny the claim but the employer does not have the final say. The state (unemployment folks) make that final determination. I also appears that in this case the determination was that he that the employee was eligible for benefits. In many instances the employee is authorized benefits if he was involuntarily terminated and had not violated any company rules or was not guilty of any misconduct. An accidental injury, away from the workplace may indeed be grounds for dismissal of and employee but does not necessarily mean he is not eligible for unemployment.
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    Seasoned Member hhrsts01's Avatar
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    So if the guy was such a bad worker then he should have been fired BUT they didnt till he was injured. Now that makes me wonder if he was really that bad or they were trying to use it as an excuse to try and fire him without having to pay him. I wonder.

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    So this guy breaks his hand and is expected to work as if nothing was wrong but can't, so they fire him?
    Doesn't your employer have any sick leave? What if the guy had a heart attack or some other major surgery...would they fire him? Sounds like he's better off not working for that azz hat of a company!
    Last edited by The Captain; 05-25-2013 at 08:47 AM.
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    Seasoned Member T.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhrsts01 View Post
    So if the guy was such a bad worker then he should have been fired BUT they didnt till he was injured. Now that makes me wonder if he was really that bad or they were trying to use it as an excuse to try and fire him without having to pay him. I wonder.
    yup makes ya wonder,can't fire someone that has a disability or your just asking for it. I hired a lady that had seizures didn't tell me on application, the state said if i didn't ask she didn't have to tell me but if i did ask it would have been discrimination. I had to cut her hours and make up split shifts to get her to quit. Still had to pay. But at least she wasn't doing fish flops on the floor anymore.

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    The injury was temporary so the employer had no right to refuse insurance coverage when he was eligible. That's what unemployment insurance is, an insurance policy.

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    Notorious Rocket Scientist The Astute Reader(tm)'s Avatar
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    There is a special corner of hell reserved for people like you, Mr. T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. View Post
    yup makes ya wonder,can't fire someone that has a disability or your just asking for it. I hired a lady that had seizures didn't tell me on application, the state said if i didn't ask she didn't have to tell me but if i did ask it would have been discrimination. I had to cut her hours and make up split shifts to get her to quit. Still had to pay. But at least she wasn't doing fish flops on the floor anymore.
    Was she not doing a good job?
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. View Post
    yup makes ya wonder,can't fire someone that has a disability or your just asking for it. I hired a lady that had seizures didn't tell me on application, the state said if i didn't ask she didn't have to tell me but if i did ask it would have been discrimination. I had to cut her hours and make up split shifts to get her to quit. Still had to pay. But at least she wasn't doing fish flops on the floor anymore.
    Look at the bright side. They could have made you change her job title to Dust Mop.

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    Seasoned Member Lone Ranger's Avatar
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    Where's the union?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboyron View Post
    One of our workers came to work with a broken hand and couldn't work.
    The boss complained that he wasn't doing a good job like he was supposed to and now couldn't work at all and told him...Adios!

    So the guy goes down to file for unemployment saying because he hurt himself he couldn't work.

    The boss gets a letter indicating they want his side of the story and he tells them the wasn't doing his job up to their satisfaction so they let him go.

    The Employment office sends us a determination letter indicating that the employee didn't fall under the misconduct rule and was eligible for unemployment, however since he said he was physically unable to work, he would not be paid until he was able and willing to work and then could re-open a claim.

    So I guess if you don't do a good job at work and get fired, you can always go down and collect unemployment..............is that the way I understand it?
    Your boss did not tell you the whole story, or in other words, the truth.

    Right now the EDD is taking the side of employee more so than just about any time in history. However, if your boss failed to provide a written warning then it is almost a guaranteed win for the employee. I would be surprised if the company is not slapped with a suit by the employee or the state. The employee for wrongful termination (again without warning) and the state for reimbursement of the unemployment funds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Ranger View Post
    Where's the union?
    I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to turn this into a union bashing thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Astute Reader(tm) View Post
    There is a special corner of hell reserved for people like you, Mr. T.

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    Ouch! That a bit much don't ya think. Couldn't afford the workmans comp and the law suit when she diped her head in a 10 gallon vat of 450 degree oil used for frying chicken. But lets reserve me a table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Astute Reader(tm) View Post
    There is a special corner of hell reserved for people like you, Mr. T.

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    Yes Indeed

    Amen

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. View Post
    Ouch! That a bit much don't ya think. Couldn't afford the workmans comp and the law suit when she diped her head in a 10 gallon vat of 450 degree oil used for frying chicken. But lets reserve me a table.
    Hey here is a thought .

    Tell us all where this S h i t hole is we boycott it here and also all over net.

    You loose it and Karrma complete .

    Burn Baby Burn .

    No shortages of scum like this one in sunshine state .

    Got one that we are running out .

    All fun in games till they get bit.

    They always do too

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    Seasoned Member sk8nmike's Avatar
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    I see that some of you have no experience with the construction industry.

    If you can work you don't get paid, you miss too many days and you can find another job? Get sick on your own time. And we didn't hire your wife and kids..
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    Seasoned Member g1nomad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8nmike View Post
    I see that some of you have no experience with the construction industry.

    If you can't work you don't get paid, you miss too many days and you can find another job? Get sick on your own time. And we didn't hire your wife and kids..
    That actually sounds like many industries outside Government work. Restaurant
    for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. View Post
    Ouch! That a bit much don't ya think. Couldn't afford the workmans comp and the law suit when she diped her head in a 10 gallon vat of 450 degree oil used for frying chicken. But lets reserve me a table.
    I myself understood where you were coming from. No table needed, you are there now.
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    'round here, the interpretation is "able to work", but recently lost (or even down-sized) your pay-check "through no fault of your own" --- Having run a few of these disputes as the employer, the employee is presumed to be without fault (something based on a constitution we used to honor or something like that) and if the employee claims that "through no fault of his own" he lost his employment, the burden of proof for fault is on the employer. In reading the OP's story, I'd imagine that this employer doesn't have a bunch of recorded (written or other) proof that the employee was a lousy employee. the judgment is simply that nobody can prove that this fired guy was fired for being a lousy employee, therefore there is no proof that his employment status changed by his own fault. Employer loses the hearing, and decision is made in favor of the former employee...

    Personally, if you find this shocking, then the number of fully inadequate employees that are still working may astound you (some for lack of sufficient proof to enable a good "cause" for termination). This is significantly more notable in larger organizations since some of these lousy employees are cheaper to keep on payroll than to pay increased unemployment premiums...


    Too late now for this employer, but if the employee didn't formally ask that you keep his (or substantially similar) position open using the FMLA stuff, then you could have reassigned him to cleaning toilets or something similarly unpalatable (just above the minimum wage rate and sufficient to disqualify him from receiving pay augmentation from the unemployment folks) when/if he chose to return to work after his unfortunate convalescence.

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    Seasoned Member hhrsts01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. View Post
    yup makes ya wonder,can't fire someone that has a disability or your just asking for it. I hired a lady that had seizures didn't tell me on application, the state said if i didn't ask she didn't have to tell me but if i did ask it would have been discrimination. I had to cut her hours and make up split shifts to get her to quit. Still had to pay. But at least she wasn't doing fish flops on the floor anymore.
    And people here complain about unions. You are the perfect example as to why they were started and still exist. I hope you get unionized soon. Serve you right. Oh and to the guy who said there Is a special place in hell for you. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd throw you out of hell too.

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    Seasoned Member Big Tom's Avatar
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    I'll guess that none of you Union supporters ever had to manage a shop full of represented employees. I did. I'll agree that unions have there place but when they defend the job of someone who is not doing it they are the suck. Flame Suit On.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Perry View Post
    Hey here is a thought .

    Tell us all where this S h i t hole is we boycott it here and also all over net.

    You loose it and Karrma complete .

    Burn Baby Burn .

    No shortages of scum like this one in sunshine state .

    Got one that we are running out .

    All fun in games till they get bit.

    They always do too
    Yep, as usual you are clueless talking out your azz. You would be the first person bitching if some one like that brought your food and had a problem or got hurt while you were there. Then let me guess you would say see... he shouldn't have hired her. You have no idea what it takes to run a business. so pedal you 9-5 azz to walmart and buy your cheap imported sh#% then go home and tell everyone how smart you are.

    Workmans comp goes up with every claim. The cost to everyone when she had 3rd degree burns all over her body would be in the millions. At this point you would grip about her being on welfare.

    Sounds like a lot of fun and games you moron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tom View Post
    I'll guess that none of you Union supporters ever had to manage a shop full of represented employees. I did. I'll agree that unions have there place but when they defend the job of someone who is not doing it they are the suck. Flame Suit On.
    Don't worry about it Tom, When I was in my 20's I worked for a pipefitter we had a contract to replace a boiler line in a train repair shop. The boss was very prepaired so not to have the area shut down very long. He hired 2 extra people, measured and cut all the pipe. We started and ran into a single eletrical plug coming out of a panel box and needed it removed. Any one could have thrown the breaker and removed it. The forman threatened to fire us if we touched it. 2 days later a journeyman electrician shows up. Then the boss gets fined for a work delay.

    I just want the bennies that unions have don't you? LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by hhrsts01 View Post
    And people here complain about unions. You are the perfect example as to why they were started and still exist. I hope you get unionized soon. Serve you right. Oh and to the guy who said there Is a special place in hell for you. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd throw you out of hell too.
    Let me guess . Union man???? LOL Yes, by all means, let keep someone around that can't do the job they were hired for. Thats the difference between someone who pays the bills and someone who "gets" a check.

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    Seasoned Member Big Tom's Avatar
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    Ya know, I hate to bash Unions because they do have their place, but the stories are rampant about the abuse.. My B-I-L owns one of the few Non-Union Scaffolding business In NYC. He has had Union goons threaten him with a fire arm in his office because he refused to Unionize his business. Union guys come to him for work when they get laid off. He pays higher than The Union Rate and gives his guys all the benefits. He gets more contracts because he doesn't have to add the $ padding that a Union Shop does, so his guys don't get layoffs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboyron View Post
    One of our workers came to work with a broken hand and couldn't work.
    The boss complained that he wasn't doing a good job like he was supposed to and now couldn't work at all and told him...Adios!

    So the guy goes down to file for unemployment saying because he hurt himself he couldn't work.

    The boss gets a letter indicating they want his side of the story and he tells them the wasn't doing his job up to their satisfaction so they let him go.

    The Employment office sends us a determination letter indicating that the employee didn't fall under the misconduct rule and was eligible for unemployment, however since he said he was physically unable to work, he would not be paid until he was able and willing to work and then could re-open a claim.

    So I guess if you don't do a good job at work and get fired, you can always go down and collect unemployment..............is that the way I understand it?
    I assume that the employee was doing a good job before he broke his hand because you didn't say otherwise. Unfortunate that he broke his hand. He lost his job and your company lost a good worker. It's perfectly reasonable that he could receive unemployment benefits, since there was no employee misconduct involved and he lost his job through "no fault of his own". He simply had the bad luck to break his hand. Not only did he lose his job, your jerk boss tries to screw him out of his unemployment insurance.

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    he would not be paid until he was able and willing to work and then could re-open a claim.
    EOS.

    I got fired once, my boss didnt like the way I was doing a engine and trans in a chevy pickup. I went to the slop sink and started washing up, he attacked me from behind with a sqeegy. I turned and whupped the snot outta him. I got fired, went and signed up for unemployment, got a job in 3 days never got a check....

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. View Post
    yup makes ya wonder,can't fire someone that has a disability or your just asking for it. I hired a lady that had seizures didn't tell me on application, the state said if i didn't ask she didn't have to tell me but if i did ask it would have been discrimination. I had to cut her hours and make up split shifts to get her to quit. Still had to pay. But at least she wasn't doing fish flops on the floor anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Astute Reader(tm) View Post
    There is a special corner of hell reserved for people like you, Mr. T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. View Post
    Ouch! That a bit much don't ya think. Couldn't afford the workmans comp and the law suit when she diped her head in a 10 gallon vat of 450 degree oil used for frying chicken. But lets reserve me a table.
    Quote Originally Posted by g1nomad View Post
    I myself understood where you were coming from. No table needed, you are there now.
    When you die, it will be better than now.

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