Battery drain, no illumination

[biglefti]

Last week I went to start my bike to go to work and the battery (only 7 months old Deka) was dead. I charge it up, and went for a ride and all is well, but I had no time to look for the problem so I have been removing the ground wire each time that I park it. Additionally, my multi meter doesn't have the 10 amp current feature so I have ordered one but it isn't in yet. Last night on my way home from my granddaughter house, I noticed that there was no illumination of the gauges or buttons. So I thought I would start here to see if this has happened to any of you here as I haven't been too successful finding anything with the search feature. Thanks for any and all help and I will try and smile for all of the non-help that seems to automatically show up

[Transformer]

If you find that it is not a drain from accessories etc...your battery is still under full replacement warranty!!

Larry

[biglefti]

Originally Posted by Transformer

If you find that it is not a drain from accessories etc...your battery is still under full replacement warranty!!

Larry

Thanks Larry, I'm pretty sure it isn't the battery. It took a charge well, and continues to hold a charge as long as I continue to disconnect the negative lead. There appears to be a draw even with the switch off. From the amount of arc it is probably in the 5 to 10 amp range. ( I'm sure I'll get critisized for estimating current draw based on arc size <G> ) Anyway, the battery seems good and starts the bike fine.

[FazerDude]

How long did it sit before it died?

You don't happen to have one of those CD player emulator MP3 players do you?

[hemi426hp]

If your sure there is no battery problem, one of the best ways to check out circuits for amp/voltage drop is by pulling fuses with amp/voltmeter hooked up to determine if a particular circuit is causing the problem. There was a thread a while back and if I recall it was mentioned that the normal key off current draw was .5ma

[biglefti]

Originally Posted by FazerDude

How long did it sit before it died?

You don't happen to have one of those CD player emulator MP3 players do you?

Overnight, about 9 or 10 hours.
No, only add ons are a gps circut and a trailer isolation unit. I doubt that either of those are connected to the panel illumination, but I do plan to check both circuts to be sure.

[biglefti]

Originally Posted by hemi426hp

If your sure there is no battery problem, one of the best ways to check out circuits for amp/voltage drop is by pulling fuses with amp/voltmeter hooked up to determine if a particular circuit is causing the problem. There was a thread a while back and if I recall it was mentioned that the normal key off current draw was .5ma

Yes, thanks, I read that thread also. I'm sure this draw is well above .5ma, but will have to wait until I get the meter to be sure.

[pedro66]

This may help

[techdude2000]

The illumination gets power from the accessory power relay and fuse #21. If either of these were the problem, alot of other stuff would be dead also.

[John Baker]

If you pull out all the fuses, you can check across each one for voltage. If no current is flowing, you will get no voltage. If there is a short, your high impedance voltmeter will show 12 volts. Once you isolate which circuit is causing the problem, leave that fuse out until you isolate the short circuit.

[RogerB]

Check to make sure your trunk mirror light goes off when you shut the trunk, or has been left on if there is no trunk lid switch. Don't ask how stupid you feel if you do this!
RogerB

[biglefti]

Originally Posted by RogerB

Check to make sure your trunk mirror light goes off when you shut the trunk, or has been left on if there is no trunk lid switch. Don't ask how stupid you feel if you do this!
RogerB

Just think how stupid I will feel if I even have a trunk mirror. <G> I've never noticed one in there before and I'm sure if I did, my granddaughter would have found it by now

[biglefti]

Originally Posted by John Baker

If you pull out all the fuses, you can check across each one for voltage. If no current is flowing, you will get no voltage. If there is a short, your high impedance voltmeter will show 12 volts. Once you isolate which circuit is causing the problem, leave that fuse out until you isolate the short circuit.

Thanks John, that's a good point and I can do that with my the meter I have now.

[biglefti]

The resting voltage is 12.99 to 13.00. However, it starts dropping about .01 volts per every 5 minutes or so once I shut the bike off.

Originally Posted by pedro66

This may help

[biglefti]

Originally Posted by techdude2000

The illumination gets power from the accessory power relay and fuse #21. If either of these were the problem, alot of other stuff would be dead also.

Yeah, I'm taking my service manual to work with me today and see if I can narrow things down a bit better.

[pedro66]

Originally Posted by biglefti

The resting voltage is 12.99 to 13.00. However, it starts dropping about .01 volts per every 5 minutes or so once I shut the bike off.

What aftermarket accessories do you have installed?

[kwthom]

Pedro - See post 6 - trailer iso unit & pigtail for GPS.

In no particular order, I'm thinking...

I'm isolating both of these add-on circuits first, just to be sure nothing weird has happened to one of these.

Any external lighting to deal with?

hemi426hp said what I was going to - isolate circuits one at a time.

Luck to ya!

[FazerDude]

Originally Posted by John Baker

If you pull out all the fuses, you can check across each one for voltage. If no current is flowing, you will get no voltage. If there is a short, your high impedance voltmeter will show 12 volts. Once you isolate which circuit is causing the problem, leave that fuse out until you isolate the short circuit.

Seems like a high impedance voltmeter will show 12 volts if there is any current draw at all.

[INTHEWIND]

Originally Posted by John Baker

If you pull out all the fuses, you can check across each one for voltage. If no current is flowing, you will get no voltage. If there is a short, your high impedance voltmeter will show 12 volts. Once you isolate which circuit is causing the problem, leave that fuse out until you isolate the short circuit.

I disagree John,

When you measure a fuse that is blown,(same as no fuse), the DVM will show 12VDC because there is a difference in potential.

You can get a voltage reading with 0 amperage flow.


later..Randy

[Buck in NE Arkansa]

A faulty regulator/rectifier can case rapid battery drain. Be sure and pull the charging circuit fuse and check the draw.

[biglefti]

Now I don't know what to think except that I may still have some hidden gremlins. My new meter came in so I was excited to begin the testing procedure. I connected the leads between the negative battery post and the negative lead. With the key in the off position, it showed a current draw of 6.5 amps. I lost my grip to the negative lead, then reset again. Again it reads 6.5 amps for about 3 seconds then drops to 5ma. So far it hasn't drawn the higher amperage again so I reconnected the lead to the battery. It has been about 3 hours or so and the battery voltage still reads 12.91 volts. I turned on the key and the instruments light up again. I hate these kind of issues because while they appear to fix themselves you know it will happen again at the most inconvienient time.

[John Baker]

Originally Posted by INTHEWIND

I disagree John,

When you measure a fuse that is blown,(same as no fuse), the DVM will show 12VDC because there is a difference in potential.

You can get a voltage reading with 0 amperage flow.


later..Randy

I respectfully disagree. E=IR (Ohm's Law) in other words E (Volts) = I (current) times R(Resistance). If I = 0, than E= 0 too.

[techdude2000]

Originally Posted by John Baker

I respectfully disagree. E=IR (Ohm's Law) in other words E (Volts) = I (current) times R(Resistance). If I = 0, than E= 0 too.

Actually, there is current. The meter requires current "I" to read the voltage and the resistance of the meter is the "R" and the reading will be the voltage "E"

Simple test to verify this is to pull a fuse and stick a voltmeter connected to a separate ammeter across the panel contacts. The current will not be the required current for the circuit to function but there is enough for the meter to work.

[cyclemed]

Funny this comes up today and here is why. I purchased a Deka replacement battery in April and have nothing but trouble since. The bike sat from May till August due to an injury but it did run. I rode it to TN once and it was ok, but then began giving me problems again ( I was still living in PA at the time). I then moved and the bike was shipped from PA to TN and dead when I got it back. It seemed to take a charge but not hold so it was left to sit. Again more of a time issue than anything else.

Anyhow, I purchased a new battery and went with Yuasa this time and figured I'd battle it out with Deka at some point. I swapped out the battery last night and found a bad connection at the ground cable. I fixed it and resecured the battery and the new Yuasa seems to be fine and holding a charge with full power. The Deka is charging as we speak so we'll see if that holds now too.

The long and short. May not be the battery. May be something simple as a loose battery cable or bad ground strap. Check your cables.

Of course now I have a different issue but probably unrelated. I have an EC Power Block and there does not seem to be power coming to the battery tender pigtail. I have ruled out the tenders as they charge just fine if clipped right to the battery. Any ideas?

Thanks

[jack huddle]

Hey Biglefti
uou quioted
Originally Posted by FazerDude
How long did it sit before it died?

You don't happen to have one of those CD player emulator MP3 players do you?

yes I do should I unplug it from the interface plug (cord)?
Jack

[tulsawalk]

Originally Posted by biglefti

Now I don't know what to think except that I may still have some hidden gremlins. My new meter came in so I was excited to begin the testing procedure. I connected the leads between the negative battery post and the negative lead. With the key in the off position, it showed a current draw of 6.5 amps. I lost my grip to the negative lead, then reset again. Again it reads 6.5 amps for about 3 seconds then drops to 5ma. So far it hasn't drawn the higher amperage again so I reconnected the lead to the battery. It has been about 3 hours or so and the battery voltage still reads 12.91 volts. I turned on the key and the instruments light up again. I hate these kind of issues because while they appear to fix themselves you know it will happen again at the most inconvienient time.

Spent a few years working avionics on A-7s and F-16s. Anytime something like that happens the first question is always; "What was the last thing I touched?" and then; "What could have been touched by the last thing I touched?". That simple set of questions has fixed a lot of airplane gremlins for me.

[biglefti]

Originally Posted by tulsawalk

Spent a few years working avionics on A-7s and F-16s. Anytime something like that happens the first question is always; "What was the last thing I touched?" and then; "What could have been touched by the last thing I touched?". That simple set of questions has fixed a lot of airplane gremlins for me.

That's the first thing I thought of. And, there even was a last thing I touched. I replaced the right side low beam H7 bulb. Pretty straight forward and not the first time I have done it. I doubt that was it. Battery cables look good. All has been fine since Saturday. I guess time will tell, but in the mean time I think I will pick up a set of those neat motorcycle jumper cables.