softer low speed throttle response

[peterfrostad]

First of all, let me state that I'm not a novice rider. Been at it for over 25 years. My last bike before picking up an '06 GL1800 was a '86 GL1200 which I rode for 13 years and about 80,000 miles. Interspersed over the last 13 years has also been time on various Harleys (my son's and son-in-law's bikes, etc.), as well as a variety of other bikes.

Let me get to my question. I find low speed maneuvering on the GL1800 to be quite challenging. I realize that the higher centre of gravity vs. the GL1200 has something to do with it and the weight difference also plays a part. Nothing you can do about those two things. But what I also find contributes a lot to my challenge is the low speed throttle response. It's so touchy at low speeds. I guess all that power has to start somewhere but I was wondering if there is any way to soften the low speed throttle response to make low speed maneuvering a bit easier.

Thanks in advance.

[wingwing]

two easy "beginner" things...

1) make sure there is no "slop" in the throttle
... take it ALL out ...

2) a lot of guys use 2nd gear in the beginning
until they get used to the bike
... it won't hurt anything.

Dennis

[LA_Ken]

Have you tried just preform low speed maneuvers in a higher gear?

The answer to your question is, Yes. Since it is a fuel injected bike you can change the throttle position sensor to be different, but this would affect the throttle all the time. You could add something like a Power Commander and re-map the fuel injection system to deliver less fuel for that gear selection and throttle position, but again this would affect the bike at all times in that gear selection. Anything with the fuel injection system is going to be complicated.

[MtnWing]

Throttle&triggers hit the nail on the head........use the clutch friction zone.
You might choose to use second gear, but even if you remain in first so that you can have power handy if you need it, the clutch friction zone is your friend at slow speeds.

Also, depending on the circumstances, a little trailing rear brake (yep, I know we have linked brakes on the 1800, but a trailing rear brake still works just the same) coupled with throttle control and the clutch friction zone can make you a pretty darned good rider at slow speeds.

Dennis

[peterfrostad]

Thanks guys. All good points.

I have used 2nd gear and it's not a bad option.

The idea of changing the throttle response via re-mapping is sort of what I had been thinking. I've messed a bit with Power Commander on a '07 HD Ultra Classic. It's pretty easy. But looking at the Power Commander website, they don't list Goldwing as one of the models supported (there are lots of Hondas supported but not the Goldwing).

I've logged about 1500 miles on my GL1800 and the low speed maneuvering is definitely getting better and, yes, if I concentrate I can do some pretty good low speed maneuvering, I just wish it was easier that's all.

Thanks again and any other ideas would be appreciated.

[LD_RIDER]

Originally Posted by peterfrostad

I was wondering if there is any way to soften the low speed throttle response to make low speed maneuvering a bit easier.

I would start with the simplest possible solution first, to wit:

You can use the clutch to adjust your rate of acceleration...Yes, the throttle in first gear is like an on/off switch, but slipping the clutch while in first will soften the <touchy> feeling. I typically modulate slow speeds when in first gear by using the clutch, not the throttle.

If you are already using the clutch in first, or you don't want to slip it, you can just use second gear..Much less touchy than first.

Takes awhile, but you will get the hang of it..

[hotwing, yummy!]

Originally Posted by MtnWing

Throttle&triggers hit the nail on the head........use the clutch friction zone.
You might choose to use second gear, but even if you remain in first so that you can have power handy if you need it, the clutch friction zone is your friend at slow speeds.

Also, depending on the circumstances, a little trailing rear brake (yep, I know we have linked brakes on the 1800, but a trailing rear brake still works just the same) coupled with throttle control and the clutch friction zone can make you a pretty darned good rider at slow speeds.

Dennis

Can't say I'm a master at it or anything, but the rear brake trailing is what's worked for me also. I can give it a little more solid throttle and use the brake to "soften" the throttle in a way. I came off a VTX and never had a problem just using the friction zone and making smooth low speed maneuvers, but with the wing it is a little bit harder to use just clutch, so I go with rear braking as well. Just my $.02, to each their own.

[nedro]

I installed a Turbo City Fuel Regulator for that reason. It took away the twitchiness, if that is even a word.

[hunzee]

Originally Posted by wingwing

two easy "beginner" things...

1) make sure there is no "slop" in the throttle
... take it ALL out ...

2) a lot of guys use 2nd gear in the beginning
until they get used to the bike
... it won't hurt anything.

Dennis

+1
Some of the folks going to Car Tires are doing so (in part) because of slow speed handling stability.

[Waldo]

First gear is quite low - in fact, all gears are quite low. It's the opinion of many GL1800 riders that this bike should have a 6th gear.

But, back to 1st being low. One reason a digital gear position indicator would be desirable.

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213800

[lmartin780]

Peter,

It's all about what MtnWing said. The rear brake!!! Constant throttle (I use second) and vary the speed with a little rear brake. The bike will be so solid you won't believe it!

Larry

[Mad Meteor]

Originally Posted by peterfrostad

Thanks guys. All good points.

I have used 2nd gear and it's not a bad option.

The idea of changing the throttle response via re-mapping is sort of what I had been thinking. I've messed a bit with Power Commander on a '07 HD Ultra Classic. It's pretty easy. But looking at the Power Commander website, they don't list Goldwing as one of the models supported (there are lots of Hondas supported but not the Goldwing).

I've logged about 1500 miles on my GL1800 and the low speed maneuvering is definitely getting better and, yes, if I concentrate I can do some pretty good low speed maneuvering, I just wish it was easier that's all.

Thanks again and any other ideas would be appreciated.

It will get easier with regular practice. The key is regular.

[nedro]

NO the key is "regulator" See post 9

[SLOWDOG]

Not my orginal thinking, but it's all about the clutch I think. Instructors and people writing about large bike control at slow speeds all emphasize that more use of he clutch -- right around that "friction zone" as mentioned above -- is critical to lessening the impact of the throttle response. It has helped me with the wing.

As an aside, I have been using a throttle rocker on the grip (to help with the arthritis I am embarassed to admit) and while it works great on the highway for me, I find myself blipping the throttle unintentionally with the rocker attached at slower speeds...one more reason to keep that clutch working.

[Larry Price]

I would call the folks at G2 Ergonomics, perhaps the throttle tamer tube with a tamer cam would or could be modified to your satisfaction. That would solve the problem... As I understand it, you want the throttle response slowed down for several more degrees for slow speed control, then ramp back up to stock after that for normal riding. Call em... its worth a shot...

http://g2ergo.com/shop/catalog/Street-4-1.html

[LarryM]

This is a topic that comes up every 6 months or so. I have found the GL1800 to have just about the most sluggish off idle throttle response of any bike I have ever owned. The Wing was a little twitchy when I first bought it, but adjusting out the slack in the throttle took care of that.

I have always used a combination of the rear brake pedal and slipping the clutch to control first gear at low speed. I never use second gear in low speed maneuvers.

[sofadriver]

Originally Posted by nedro

I installed a Turbo City Fuel Regulator for that reason. It took away the twitchiness, if that is even a word.

It's THE hot mod for ST1300's ! I did it to mine and was thrilled with the results. All the twitchiness was gone. Money well spent.

[TXREALTOR]

Friction Zone! Feather that clutch and use the rear brake. Then Practice, Practice, Practice.
I would be interested in the turbo city fuel regulator. Any sites? I'll try a google.

[Morris9982]

I found that adjusting the throttle cables (taking out the slack) made a big difference in my bike.

[Teaser 1]

Like posted above adjust the excess slop out of your throttle cable. Master this multifold technique following and you can make the Wing slow dance around anything very smoothly. Look only where you want to go not down, Use smooth throttle inputs (I always use first gear), exercise proper use of the clutches friction zone, and a little rear brake. Also don't forget to counter balance this beast on ultra slow stuff. With time it all comes naturally. Remember front brake and slow sharp turns equal dumping on any bike but doubly so with the big Wing.

[peterfrostad]

Wow! Lots of good info.

Thanks a lot.

[Mark Rowell]

Being a former MSF/CMSP instructor, I was really embarressed to be the only one to drop my bike while doing the U-turn box maneuver at a recent experienced rider course. Having mostly H-D bikes in the class made it mortifying.

Yes, having slop in your throttle cables will make small throttle changes a bugger, if not down right impossible. Yes, feathering the clutch or dragging the rear brake or using 2nd gear are techniques that can be employed to assist you in slow speed maneuvers. Yes, fuel injected bikes are twitchy at small throttle opening settings and feel more like they go from off to on to off instead of the smooth transitions we are used to on carburated bikes.

IMHO, it is regular practice that makes the difference. Most people will avoid doing something they don't feel comfortable doing so your ability to do that just gets worse. Over time, this causes a deteriorization of physical muscle motor skills to perform that maneuver. The problem is futher aggrevated by developing an increasingly powerful mental block, convincing yourself that you can't do it, and eventually...you can't.

The real solution is to practice what you feel are your weak points. For some, that might mean spending time in a parking lot by yourself or with a friend practicing those maneuvers. Having someone there would be a good idea, to help if you drop your bike or, heaven forbid, you hurt yourself. Maybe all you need to do is force yourself to do those "problem" maneuvers during your regular riding. For instance, if you have no problems doing left hand tight turns but have difficulty with right tight turns (like I do), then take every opportunity to use tight right turns instead of tight left turns on every ride.

It is also helpful to use positive mental imaging and self talk to break down whatever mental barrier you have built up over the years that are preventing you from doing those "tough" maneuvers. Before getting on the bike, take some time to sit alone in a quiet room in a comfortable chair with your eyes closed. Form mental images of you riding your bike doing that problem maneuver, only you are doing it absolutely perfect, every time. View details like what you are wearing, think of the air passing over you as you glide along, hear the tires scrub against the pavement, feel the warm sun on your face. After a while, see yourself as if you are standing to the side observing yourself doing that maneuver over and over, each time you are doing it exactly right. In your mind, tell yourself what you are doing, all in positive context. Do NOT say "don't look down", but instead say "keep head and eyes up, looking over your right shoulder toward where you want to go".

This mental imaging thing sounds like some hokey psycho babble B.S., but it has been proven to really work. They did an experiment with two comperably skilled college basketball teams. One team did the normal team practice for 1.5 hours per day in the gym going through all the drills and exercises. The other team spent 1 hour generating the mental image of themselves doing each of the drills, "perfecting it" each and everytime. Every shot resulted in the "swish" sound as the basket ball hit nothing but net. They then spent the last 1/2 hour with pure physical strength and flexibility training. Yep, the second "mental imaging" team had a significantly better win record that year than the "physical training" team.

Enough for now. I have to get out on a parking lot and practice what I preach. "Right tight turns are just as easy as tight left turns. I can do this".

[mjw930]

I agree with most everything posted. From the factory the throttle slop was terrible, correcting that went a long way on making the slow speed maneuvers easier. I do find the clutch has a fairly small range of actuation, much less than your basic Harley so that was another mental adjustment.

The other thing that causes me grief are slow speed turns that are bumpy. The Wing's harsh ride over certain fast impact bumps will cause me to snap the throttle and/or lose the friction zone with the clutch much more than the same turns do with my other bikes. I may try the 2nd gear trick to see how that works since the one bump that always gets me is the right turn into my driveway. Our driveway, when approaching from the right, is a 120 degree turn with a nice bump where it meets the road (they are fixing that over the summer). I tend to take that coasting but the speed I need to maintain coming in is critical and the whole turn takes far too much effort than it should (or does with my other bikes).

As for the Throttle Tamer, is there any reason the one for the ST won't work on the GL?

[LarryM]

I was really embarressed to be the only one to drop my bike while doing the U-turn box maneuver at a recent experienced rider course. Having mostly H-D bikes in the class made it mortifying.

You are now forever banned from riding a Goldwing in the presence of Harleys.

[LarryM]

Originally Posted by peterfrostad

Wow! Lots of good info.

Thanks a lot.

Peter, there is one thing that hasn't been discussed here, and in fact is usually never brought up as a possibility. Your bike may actually have touchier response than the typical Wing. We are so used to these Japanese bikes being built to such tight tolerances, we mistakenly assume that they all have to operate identical.

Have someone experienced with Wings take yours for a short ride, and see if it really is you that needs adjusting.

Sometimes it is just the size of the bike that makes it appear to be touchy. With a little bike, you can make mistakes at low speed and quickly correct with some body english. A 900 lb bike doesn't react as fast as a small bike. A couple of degrees too much lean with a Wing can mean laying it down, requiring you to be more precise in your control over it.

[Auswing]

Originally Posted by LarryM

Peter, there is one thing that hasn't been discussed here, and in fact is usually never brought up as a possibility. Your bike may actually have touchier response than the typical Wing. We are so used to these Japanese bikes being built to such tight tolerances, we mistakenly assume that they all have to operate identical.

When I had my Wing serviced at the 1000klms, (first service), the mechanic commented to me that he now understood what the other owners were unhappy about. My bike apparently did not balk or flatspot, it just went. He said I got a good one. So I guess there are differences out there.

Trev.

[stick405]

Originally Posted by peterfrostad

First of all, let me state that I'm not a novice rider. Been at it for over 25 years. My last bike before picking up an '06 GL1800 was a '86 GL1200 which I rode for 13 years and about 80,000 miles. Interspersed over the last 13 years has also been time on various Harleys (my son's and son-in-law's bikes, etc.), as well as a variety of other bikes.

Let me get to my question. I find low speed maneuvering on the GL1800 to be quite challenging. I realize that the higher centre of gravity vs. the GL1200 has something to do with it and the weight difference also plays a part. Nothing you can do about those two things. But what I also find contributes a lot to my challenge is the low speed throttle response. It's so touchy at low speeds. I guess all that power has to start somewhere but I was wondering if there is any way to soften the low speed throttle response to make low speed maneuvering a bit easier.

Thanks in advance.

This is what you want. We need all the Wingers to write these folks and have them design one of their wonder Throttle Tamer Tubes for the Wing... Cheers...
http://g2ergo.com/shop/catalog/G2-Qu...-Honda-38.html

You Tube

[Teaser 1]

Originally Posted by stick405

This is what you want. We need all the Wingers to write these folks and have them design one of their wonder Throttle Tamer Tubes for the Wing... Cheers...
http://g2ergo.com/shop/catalog/G2-Qu...-Honda-38.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r6W62-Ugts

I had one of these on an FJR that was hyper twitchy and it did help. I just never saw the need for one on the Wing. But for those that feel differently it could be an option.

[WHITE wing extremist]

I agree with what most have said. There is one other thing you can do. If your hands are big enough, install larger grips. The larger diameter requires more wrist movement and less force to get the same rotation of the throttle. You may feel more "dialed in".

I couldn't stand the throttle response until I took the slack out of the cable and added the Kury ISO grips.

2nd gear and friction zones also help.

[peterfrostad]

I sent an email to the Throttle Tamer people. I'm interested to see what kind of a response I get.