[Max McAllister]

Max,

Per my Owners' Manual, my GL1800 is 791# dry. Six gallons of gas, four quarts of oil and coolant should bump it up to around 830#.

You might want to check your bikes weight, unless you have loaded it up with chrome.

You point is still well taken, I just couldn't believe the 950#s/

I got that number from "Kenny" on this board who actually weighed his bike.

It has very minimal dressup stuff, if any, and he doesn't tour, so it wasn't loaded down.

He was surprised that the bike weighed so much more than claimed.

He's a straight shooter, so I believed him. I wonder if other people have weighed their bikes?

 

[Max McAllister]

I also don't think it is bottoming out. I'm talking about going down a typical concrete freeway where you are feeling fairly normal expansion joints.

That is the effect the anti-bottoming cone in the right fork plays... it makes it virtually impossible to feel a metal-to-metal bottom out.

The source of harshness over little small bumps while just going straight is due to the right fork, which has a single cartridge in it.

Since the left fork has no damping whatsoever, Showa had to make the right leg have DOUBLE damping force. Since the physical size and structure of the cartridge is what is normally doing HALF of what the GL setup is asking it to do, it cannot pass oil quickly enough when hitting small, sharp bumps.

This condition can only be remedied by totally upgrading the front suspension. Springs alone won't fix this.

 

[JWScott]

I am going to put in my .02 worth on this as it might be and probably is wrong. :wink: :wink:

Now when my son had his 1500 and I rode it, it rode real soft. My 1200 compared to the 1800 also rode real soft. Now the point I am trying to make is this: If you want a bike that rides like a race car you need a stiffer suspension. Neither the 1200 or the 1500 could hold a candle to the preformance you get out of the 1800. I am only stating this based on how the hot dogs on this list ride these bikes through the twisties and mountain roads. "hotdogs" was meant only as the better faster riders. No slams intended....

For instance if you want to race on a road course you use the Shelby Mustang, not the family Lincoln. I had a Shelby Mustang and it was a blast on curvey roads but for the most part it rode stiff. Now my Dad's Lincoln had a real impressive soft ride but could not keep up with the Mustang anywhere else. Just a thought

I agree! That was what Honda intended and even stated. They wanted to attract the younger riders knowing that the traditional Wing rider probably would not like it. Must have seen a market in their decision? 8)

 

[WingedNut]

Jim,

What dealer do you use?

Thanks for all the input. I think what I'm going to do is try to get up to my dealer pretty soon. The owner is actually an old friend of mine, and he has a Goldwing "shop bike" that I'll ask him if I can ride, and I'll ask them to take a look at the anti-dive at the same time. They sell a lot of Goldwings, and might have some ideas.

I know it sounds obvious that I would have already taken it to them, but they are 40 miles from my house and I usually ride the FJR on Saturdays (when I would normally try to get up there). I may try to take some time off this Friday to go up there.

Thanks again.

 

[Max McAllister]

With the number of responses to this post, I feel that there is probably no good fix at this time and probably won't be one in the future. It's a shame that a motorcycle of this caliber has a suspension problem like this, can't believe Honda let this get by them and continues to turn-out bikes with this design problem. Larry

:?: :?: :?:

What would lead you to say this?

1. There IS a good fix.

2. It is available NOW.

3. You don't have to wait for the future.

Type "Traxxion" into the search box, and read the responses.

100% money back guarantee, nothing to lose, except an ill-handling Wing.

:wink:

 

[jjsC6]

Jim,

What dealer do you use?

Thanks for all the input. I think what I'm going to do is try to get up to my dealer pretty soon. The owner is actually an old friend of mine, and he has a Goldwing "shop bike" that I'll ask him if I can ride, and I'll ask them to take a look at the anti-dive at the same time. They sell a lot of Goldwings, and might have some ideas.

I know it sounds obvious that I would have already taken it to them, but they are 40 miles from my house and I usually ride the FJR on Saturdays (when I would normally try to get up there). I may try to take some time off this Friday to go up there.

Thanks again.

Northwest Honda (Lunsfords). Ronnie and I got to be very good friends when I roadraced over 20 years ago.

 

[jjsC6]

I also don't think it is bottoming out. I'm talking about going down a typical concrete freeway where you are feeling fairly normal expansion joints.

That is the effect the anti-bottoming cone in the right fork plays... it makes it virtually impossible to feel a metal-to-metal bottom out.

The source of harshness over little small bumps while just going straight is due to the right fork, which has a single cartridge in it.

Since the left fork has no damping whatsoever, Showa had to make the right leg have DOUBLE damping force. Since the physical size and structure of the cartridge is what is normally doing HALF of what the GL setup is asking it to do, it cannot pass oil quickly enough when hitting small, sharp bumps.

This condition can only be remedied by totally upgrading the front suspension. Springs alone won't fix this.

Max - thanks for that explanation. I'm really learning a lot! I appreciate it!

 

[jjsC6]

jjsC6,

I had Traxxion do the whole nine yards (front springs, AK-20 cartridge, all-balls, and rear shock) at Wing Ding earlier this month. The ride is 1000 percent better, better handling, smoother handling (bumps in the road, what bumps?). Mother Honda should have done this from the start! An expensive mod, yes, but will do it again on future bikes! I too, have the '05 ABS.

Mike

Mike, good information, but I have looked at their prices, and I would have a hard time stomaching that expense. Maybe at some point I'll consider it though.

 

[JD]

try this

MIne has progressive's upgrade front & rear with heavy duty 20 weight fork oil with the a/dive disabled with all balls, with elite 3's which do not wobble. My wing rides like a lincoln to me.

 

[stuna]

goes beyond. The bike settles a lot when I roll it off the Centerstand as though it is very soft. And the harshness is all in the front. Even with the shocks in back set to 20#s I don't feel the harshness in the back end.

??????? well with my air fork set up :idea: the front is like hu // thump / front , rear bang. im real happy with my set up . works shock is ordered as the rear end sucks now

 

[LLong]

With the number of responses to this post, I feel that there is probably no good fix at this time and probably won't be one in the future. It's a shame that a motorcycle of this caliber has a suspension problem like this, can't believe Honda let this get by them and continues to turn-out bikes with this design problem. Larry

:?: :?: :?:

What would lead you to say this?

1. There IS a good fix.

2. It is available NOW.

3. You don't have to wait for the future.

Type "Traxxion" into the search box, and read the responses.

100% money back guarantee, nothing to lose, except an ill-handling Wing.

:wink:

Max,
What led me to say this, is that I don't consider doing a total front suspension rebuild/upgrade a "good fix". I'm sure we're talking about at least a thousand to two thousand dollar or more investment and this also disqualifies this option as a "good fix". Not to mention that I'm not familiar with anyone in my area that offers your product, service and guarantee. Then we have the possibility of what occurred with Catfish and M&M as stated earlier on this thread. Now don't get me wrong, it sounds like you have a good product for some riders and from what I read about your customer service and guarantee on this board I'm quite impressed. It's just that this type of a project doesn't seem like something that I would expect to have to do on every Goldwing coming out of production and that someone such as yourself would have to establish a business to correct an ongoing design flaw by a manufacturer such as Honda on their flagship motorcycle. Larry

 

[Guest]

Spending a grand or more for a "perceived" better ride is a lot. Fresh oil and disabling the anti-dive will cost under $5.00 and will be about as good as it will get.
In all modifications there is the "mind games" aspect. How often have we make adjustments or mods and seen "vast improvements" only to figure out later it is the same or even worse. The mind will perceive things that are only wishful thinking. You spend a grand on springs and you will undoubtedly perceive much.
All I can say is the anti-dive was not working (jammed) and disabling it freed up the front end. I did take the time to mic out the new progressive springs and found them to be the same wire diameter and length as the original "progressively wound" units. The only difference was a slight difference in progression rate. Hardly a reason to see dramatic change. I just changed oil in my forks last night and expect the ride to be good as before. I have no complaints but then again I am accustoming to the ride and find no fault.

I will say the belly pan really does cut crosswinds by at least 140 percent though - or did the wind stop blowing?:wink:

 

[Stu_O]

It is a darn shame that one feels the need to up-grade the suspenion on a new bike, but, well, I guess nothing is perfect. Seems more people like the stock suspension, than don't. I was one, like you seem to be, that didn't.

Most street bikes' suspensions are designed for the test ride. They float down a smooth highway like a magic carpet. When the owner encounters rough roads or starts riding agressively, the undersprung condition shows up.

Would I have been just as happy if I just dis-abled the anti-dive? Don't know. But like you noticed, the stock suspension does good to just hold the bike up, not to mention you and your mate.
Mack

The harshness is likely due to bottoming of the forks, though some seem to jump all over the anti-dive as if every 1800 out there has defective anti-dive. Traxxion's setup creates a firmer, well controlled ride, but it may not be to the liking of those who enjoy the magic carpet and don't really push the machine too hard. In that case, there are aftermarket front springs available from several sources that should cure your problem. Traxxion sells just the springs, I believe. Springs are also available from Progressive Suspension, Hyperpro, and a few others.

Stu

 

[LLong]

Hi JJSC6,

We find commonly that people think the GL fork is "stiff". But really, it is almost bottomed out, and therefore, it is stiff.

The Wing has 5" of travel, and as soon as you roll it off the stand, it drops 3" of the 5. In the bottom of the right fork is a "oil lock" mechanism, you can think of as an "oil bumper" that prevents the fork from mechanically bottoming. This takes up the last inch of travel.

So 4 of your 5" of travel are ineffective. That leaves you 1". It isn't hard to see why people think it is stiff... once the fork has moved, it heads into the oil bumper, and then that's about it.

The anti-dive, whether it is stuck or not, is on when the brakes are applied. This basically hydraulically locks the left fork in whatever position it was in when you pulled the brakes. This is the most tragically flawed part of a Wing. Disabling it, whether you do anything else or not will be helpful.

We add in WAY stiffer springs, which doesn't mean they are "stiff".... they are "adequate" to support the bike. The stock springs are too soft to even hold the bike up.

By having the bike sprung properly, you immediately gain effective wheel travel, and that solves a big part of your trouble.

Hi Max,
I'm trying to take what you say is occurring above and correlate it to the situation that I'm experiencing. When I'm traveling down the road at 35-45mph for instance, and hit a ridge or slight unevenness in the road, something probably 1 to 2 inches at the most in depth, I feel a sharp jolting that transfers up the front end through the handle bars and right up my arms. This is the "harshness" that I believe is being referred to by myself and many others. There seems to be no absorption of shock whatsoever by the front suspension. Now when I'm riding at 5 mph in a parking lot, for example, and run over a 6 inch high speed bump, I feel a significant amount of travel in the front suspension, at least 2 to 3 inches and this reaction under this condition is about the same as I've experienced with front suspension of other motorcycles. If what you are saying above is true and there is only 1 inch of travel available before bottoming out, which would explain the "jolting and harshness" what would be your explanation of what I describe above? Thanks in advance for the input. Larry

 

[PunkinDave]

Spending a grand or more for a "perceived" better ride is a lot. Fresh oil and disabling the anti-dive will cost under $5.00 and will be about as good as it will get........SNIP............You spend a grand on springs and you will undoubtedly perceive much.

I think you're having a small confusion.. Traxxion sells a self install spring kit for $125.. I'm thinking about starting there myself..
The $1,200 fork rebuild is a complete overhaul and engineered dampeners for BOTH fork tubes.. It's a lot of $$$ but it's also a hell of a lot more than just new springs. If you change the springs dramatically, you have to also look at dampening changes too..
I agree with you though, that Progressives for the GL1800 are next to worthless.. They made a world of difference on the GL1200 but hardly noticed a difference on the GL1800..

 

[joevano]

In the last month, I have gone from stock springs to Progressives and then to Traxxion. After using the Traxxions for a while, Max sent me two new spacers slightly shorter than the originals in the kit to reduce the preload and smooth out the road a little more.

With the Traxxion ( springs only ), and the shorter spacers, the ride is much improved over the stock. First of all, the front end rides higher, so which my highway pegs are grateful for. Secondly, its hard to put to words, but, the steering is tighter and more responsive. Lastly, the shock from road ruts and small bumps is greatly reduced. It's not gone, but a road that I normally would have avoided is now rideable. For the most part, the shock that is left is much softer and tolerable. I still would love to try the complete fork remodel but that's a big bite to swallow.

Next is steering bearings and rear spring!

 

[jjsC6]

[quote="M&M"e0rx51j]It is a darn shame that one feels the need to up-grade the suspenion on a new bike, but, well, I guess nothing is perfect. Seems more people like the stock suspension, than don't. I was one, like you seem to be, that didn't.

Most street bikes' suspensions are designed for the test ride. They float down a smooth highway like a magic carpet. When the owner encounters rough roads or starts riding agressively, the undersprung condition shows up.

Would I have been just as happy if I just dis-abled the anti-dive? Don't know. But like you noticed, the stock suspension does good to just hold the bike up, not to mention you and your mate.
Mack

The harshness is likely due to bottoming of the forks, though some seem to jump all over the anti-dive as if every 1800 out there has defective anti-dive. Traxxion's setup creates a firmer, well controlled ride, but it may not be to the liking of those who enjoy the magic carpet and don't really push the machine too hard. In that case, there are aftermarket front springs available from several sources that should cure your problem. Traxxion sells just the springs, I believe. Springs are also available from Progressive Suspension, Hyperpro, and a few others.

Stu[/quotee0rx51j]

Stu, not aiming this reposonse at you, but just using your post as an example of the confusion on this subject. Many people are telling us that the suspension is too stiff in order to make it handle more like a sport bike. Others (like yourself) are saying that its too soft in order to make it feel like a "magic carpet ride".

This is the fun of Forum discussions. We have two totally opposing views on what the problem is, and we have to figure out what to believe before spending hundreds (or thousands) of dollars.

Again, no flames, and I genuinely do appreciate all the input.

 

[John T]

What jjsc6 just said- yes, some saying too stiff, some saying too weak

But I think I see both Max and Stu both saying too weak.....so that's pretty strong weight in the opinion dept for me.

So then if the real jolts are from bottoming out, (assuming you confirmed your antidive is not binding)....... and I think I can believe that from my own observations, then what about going back to the question raised about adding some travel height with a longer spacer and the original spring. Say a 1 to 1.5 inch longer spacer for example.... Wouldn't that give the travel length needed?

when the spring is then compressed that extra inch and a half before bottoming what is the answer to the comments " So now you want your fork springs to bind??? What are you guys smoking over there?" vs "No danger on this as the springs can be compressed over 7" before they bind - I don't smoke, not even crack"

Stu and Max, it seems to make sense.... what is your view?

 

[Fred H.]

I have marked the plunger that sticks in this diagram as well as the upper and lower halves of the anti-dive valve. If you seperate the valve halves about 1/4 inch, it will effectively disable the anti-dive system. You can then go for a short test ride and see if it makes a difference. If it makes a huge improvement, then you have a sticking valve.

It only takes about 15 minutes to seperate the valve halves and perform this simple test.

 

[jjsC6]

JOHN - one thing I absolutely know for certain - what I am feeling is not the suspension bottoming out. Not to insult anyone who suggested that, but I'm astute enough to know that is not what is happening.

FRED - thanks for the diagram.